New work law changes all the rules

PROPOSALS for the most far-reaching reform for a generation of immigration controls through the regulation of work and housing have finally been published.

New proposals for immigration controls through the regulation of work and housing have been lodged with the States
New proposals for immigration controls through the regulation of work and housing have been lodged with the States

PROPOSALS for the most far-reaching reform for a generation of immigration controls through the regulation of work and housing have finally been published.

After years of debate and delay, the draft Control of Housing and Work Regulations were published yesterday and should be debated by the States on 5 March. If agreed, they will come into force in April.

Not only do they require all Islanders who want to get a job or move home to produce a registration card proving their residential status, the regulations also aim to improve the rights of unqualified Islanders.

• See Saturday's JEP for full details

Comments for: "New work law changes all the rules"

sporran

I don't think they are far-reaching. All they are doing is calling current categories different names. A bit of a whitewash to appease the electorate.

Cockup

Sporran spot on. Got it in one. This changes nothing , if anything it gives the immigrant more rights than he currently has.

Read the article in the JEP and you get most of the facts there. Nothing changes just more bloody inconvenience for the Jersey born ( or local)

Another Routier failure

Overpopulated

I wonder if our glorious government have any plan for the flood of Romanians and Bugarians heading this way from 2014, the Uk government is already panicing.

Hundreds of thousands all with children and grannies ...

booger

Too late they are already here, although I have met plenty of very pleasant Romanians and Bulgarians it is only a matter of time until the imported lawless minority start to effect Jersey.

BOLT GATE after 'orse has gorn'

now that everybody is leaving the sinking ship, we come up with CONTROLS ON IMIGRATION!!about 10 years late.

Jerry Gosselin

During the States sitting on 5th July 2011, Deputy Geoff Southern asked Senator Sarah Ferguson (Chairman of the Corporate Services, Migration and Population Sub-Panel which conducted scrutiny on the proposals and gave them the thumbs up) whether she would accept that "no additional powers are contained in this legislation...". She replied (extract): "Yes, we came to the conclusion that there is nothing in this law that will control people coming into the Island." During the same exchange, Senator Philip Ozouf added that tighter border controls "are simply not possible without fundamental constitutional reform, particularly with the relationship with the U.K."

So you are plain WRONG if you think this law is going to help CONTROL immigration. All it is going to do is covertly increase the powers of the State to monitor the behaviour and whereabouts of ALL of its citizens (whether local or not) through the creation of the new Population Register. It is the Big Brother aspects we should all be concentrating on, but these were completely ignored at the time of the debate.

James Wiley

Well Jerry you are spot on again, this is about knowing who is living where and who is working where for one purpose only... to make it easier to collect taxes.

Of course what it will result in is less people working... but then unemployment is their highest priority.

Renegade

Exactly right Jerry. I won't submit to this, will leave Jersey if they start trying to track me. Fortunately my landlord takes cash so no worries on that score, also self employed so the States can go shove it.

Beaumont

That's all well and good, but the key question is how easy will the registration cards be given out, or what criteria will people need to achieve in order to receive one?

Cockup

This is just a sop to the electorate to make it appear as if there taking notice of our concerns but in effect all it dose is give more rights to those just off the boat.

debatable

bit like 1943 then.....

JPSpecial

Do you mean 1984?

jerseythepartiesover

Do you know something our government and parliament get it so wrong so many times but even by their standards this proposed bill defies belief.

They are now saying you MUST have a "registration card" to move "job" or "home".

What a fascist way of doing things.

Why should government tell me I cannot move jobs or my living accomodation without having the big brother state telling me I must have an identity card to do it.

The government of Jersey has totally lost the plot.

I will not be applying for this identity card I assure you.

Do a bit more research

What a ridiculous comment, you do realise that you already require consent to lease or purchase a property and you need to provide proof that you have lived here for a period of 5 years to apply for jobs for locally qualified people. The cards just make it easier to distinguish between people who have their five years or housing qualifications between those that don't. This will reduce the amount of people being illegally employed, no card no job. You already MUST recieve consent to move house and you already MUST have lived here for 5 years for most jobs, it's not fascist it's the LAW.

jerseythepartiesover

I voz only obeying orders, orders zat must be obeyed visout question, vere are your papers!!!!

do a bit more research will you

Jerry Gosselin

If you already HAVE to provide proof of 5 years residence to apply for local jobs, how will the new law "reduce the amount of people being illegally employed, no card no job"? You already HAVE to provide a Soc Sec card to your employer so how will adding a bit more information to the card about housing status make it less likely that someone will be illegally employed? The employer should already be insisting on proof of 5 years residence if that is what is required. If people are currently being employed without a Soc Sec card then surely they'll continue working without the new enhanced card too?

andy

too little too late!! close all doors now

Josse

sadly ths should of been done years ago. then islanders maybe in work and not unemployed. Instead of eastern europeans

cockup

Dont you read what is said? Your statement is completely pointless.

None of what Routier has proposed will do anything to limit immigration. It's simply to track what your doing and nothing more.

S2

Reading this grammatical car crash, I would employ a bright Polish worker over Josse every time.

oceanblue

about 20 years to late, but glad to hear the rights of the unqualified people will at long last be improved.

cockup

By giving the unqualified more rights it will likely lead to more of them wanting to stay permanently. Not something we need

The housing status of an individual was the way we used to control immigration and it worked. This is still how Guernsey do it and they dont have the immigration issues that we have.

The spineless Ozouf and gang abandoned all thought of controlling immigration long ago in favour of low wage employees from any country you can think of in order that business can have a cheap labour pool.

The consequence is that the indigenous people have been reduced to almost 50% of the total population.

Flymo

Ahh, so the States got their way with identity cards after all then.

The irony here is rather spectacular. Business owners (and that will include States members) must have rubbed their hands with glee as immigration forced up the number of people living here. The more people here, the more customers for their goods and services that their businesses supply.

And now businesses are closing down and the population is still too high for this little bit of rock and little sign of a reduction in Social Security's bill.

luap

Hold on, dont they know where we all work via I.T.I.S and dont we have something called a Social Security card?

This sounds like a complete waste of money and is surely just going to provide some more jobs for civil servants whilst paying lip service to the general public. Out of interest, will the person going for a job interview just be required to flash their card to their prospective employer to prove they are allowed to be employed or will the employer use the details on the card to check up on the prospective employee? Will a database be kept containing details other than whther a person is residentially qualified? Will anyone in the civil service department tasked with looking after this database be able to put their own flags on peoples data, people they dont particularly like for example? What sort of data will these people have acces to? Is the department that runs this going to be headud up by a relative of Orson Welles?

sporran

Good points no 10. If these new cards do not contain photo id, they could make it easier to circumvent the law.

I really don'see the point of any of these changes and as I have previously said, I think their purpose is to give the appearance of tightening controls while continuing to allow employers to bring in as much cheap labour as they require.

Joke

The UK debated identity cards at huge expense, and decided against them. Can we skip all further debates/reviews, scrap this idea, and concentrate on the actual issues, as opposed to more pointless form filling jobs for the States.

Marky

This idea, completely unrelated to immigration concerns, was first suggested a few years ago. It was dropped after negative response, with some people noticing the last time a card of this type was required to be carried by islanders was during the Nazi occupation.

All the States have done is pretended to go away and think of a solution to the immigration problem, then dusted off that same rejected ID card and tarted it up with some fancy talk to make it look like a newly developed immigration control.

That insult to the intelligence aside, its time to state the obvious.

At a fraction of the cost and infinitely more simple to implement and administrate is the work permit. You limit the issue of work permits to non-locals to X thousand per year, and no work permit means no job. It's cheap, simple and effective. Local residents can be identified by their Social Security cards.

The suggested ID card system will come at a huge financial cost when that doesn't need to be the case - unless the real agenda here is to force ID cards upon the populace.

Mason nee Goldsworthy

I came to the Island in the 70s as my father was seconded to the States when he left I had no qualifications and had to live in dumps. I reached my 10 years and married a Jersey man had a son on the island but because of the housing situation we had to leave. My son wasn't a year old. He has no rights in the island but his heritage and nationality is Jersey. We recently came over to bury his Grandmother. We are proud of the Jersey connection. My father sorted out the issues with the milk, new potatoes and imported semen to improve the Jersey cow stock. The states now talk about ID cards, is that not something the Germans wanted? My mother in law would turn in her grave to think the States are stooping to this. We have pride in our Jersey heritage, but the number of immigrates means true Jersey people are being force out.

Gino Risoli

Expectations can be very destructive. A company creates jobs. The job pays a weekly wage. One gets paid for work done, it makes sense. How on earth did we get the principle of paid holidays and sickness pay and maternity leave and dump the cost on the private sector instead of sharing the burden. Oh could it be politicians buying votes on money that does not belong to them.

jerseydaz

Just been reading what a Guernsey Politician has said about these proposals. Not very often you will hear me say this but Guernsey has it right and they are getting tougher. We should adopt their system and when your times up off you go, complete with family. Not the Jersey way of hello have some money and don't forget your family ( all 20 of them), got a distant relative from your country,well bring them to and the dog as well.

puffin

And a lot of the immigrants we end up with in Jersey have done their nine months in Guernsey and because they have to leave (due to the housing laws) they come over here, then stay and bring their families etc when they realise they can!

Jersey used to have the 9 months work thing and it worked, now we have a huge problem with just too many immigrants on our tiny rock, and quality of life for us tax payers is diminishing very fast :(

ragpud

Isn't it funny rights for non qualified residents.I take it this is because a lot of these eastern europeans know their rights and are making demands on the government. When i arrived here it was a case of like it or lump it, and if you don't like it theres a boat leaves every morning ! Time to put a stop to this right now, it is causing a lot of stress among locals and people are just not going to take it any more ! why should we be pushed out of work ? Take to the streets thats what i say

Anka

From an immigrant's point of view:

Eastern Europeans can't make any demands because they have no or little rights here. We need to be here at least 5 years (and it means 60 months of dutifully paying taxes and, in some cases, working below our qualifications) to get any help such as job seeker's allowance when we are unemployed. We have to pay high rents for crappy flats/bedsits etc for 10 years before we can live in a decent place. As oppose to a 19-year old Jersey bean single mother who has everything provided for (from my taxes - you welcome) and no inclination to start working. I think Jersey people have been protected for so long that it has turned against them and they are not able or willing to make some effort to complete on the “job market”. I know it is not the case generally but it is not rare either.

By the way, young people in Jersey don’t leave the Island because their dream job in waitressing has been taken by a Polish person, but because they don’t think they will ever be able to afford a house to raise their family. Well, you can’t blame the eastern Europeans for the rocketing house prices, can you.

And a final thought: Do you, the Islanders, think you have a right to buy a “retirement home” in France or Spain or wherever you like? Do you not think your children have a right to live where they choose to be? So do we.

Overpopulated

People from the UK and Jersey who buy retirement homes are not claiming welfare handouts in other countries. They are not taking jobs from low skilled locals either, or bringing in children to create a demand for a multi million £ new school.

booger

But you are taking afffordable housing out of the grasp of local people at your holiday destination. This then leads to the young people of that area leaving in droves as they cannot afford to buy a home to settle in, villages becoming ghost towns in off season as locals cannot afford to live there etc. How many "locals" in Jersey have stopped and thought how they might be effecting the areas in France or Spain that they have bought their bolt hole in. It seems that it is ok for "locals" in Jersey to trample over the top of other areas of Europe to get what they desire but they dont seem to like it when immigrants come here to get what they want.

John Deere

Well put Anka, having come to Jersey to drive tractors 15 years ago as no local would be seen dead working on farms (apart from the farmer) I can fully sympathise with you on the treatment of immigrants to the island. It becomes even more comical the way the States classify you as a resident for tax purposes yet you have absolutely no rights on the island you are paying towards.

Shards

@John Deere - I'm Jersey born and bred and now find myself unemployed. I am happy to work on a farm especially if it involves driving a tractor. I also have my HGV licence (not that I need it to drive a tractor I know).

Where do I apply 'cause I sure as hell haven't seen or heard of any jobs and I went to school with farmers sons!

Johnny

I too worked on a farm about 15 years ago (about the time at which John Deere claims to have arrived here). It was a fantastic job and I enjoyed it immensely, particularly the tractor driving.

As a Jersey person, I no longer see these jobs available and I rather fear that, were I to apply for one, I would have to speak to the farmer personally otherwise "foreign foreman sydrome" may very well prevail.

Qwerty

If you don't like it then you are free to leave!

Slawek

This only prooves Anka's point. You have apparently noting else sensible to say.

Paulo

No, Slobberk, it rather "prooves" the point that those who come here and moan are here by choice and can leave when they wish if it is so awful.

Slawek

Paulo,

1. I'm not finding calling me Slobberk funny.

2. Mr (or Mrs) Qwerty was apparently not able to answer in a sensible manner to the valid arguments so he/she went to the usual islander's rant "If you don't like it here..".

3. Apparently you also cannot deny that Anka is actually right so to make you feel better you've called me in an offensive manner. How sad person you must be.

Paulo

But why stay if it's awful?

Henrique

I tend to disagree with Slowek; if you go somewhere and it is not to your exacting taste, then you move on to somewhere else which is better for you.

It is not a "rant" to say that, it is common sense. Indeed, I believe that you will hear a lot worse in other parts of the world if you go there and moan like he does.

If you don't like somewhere, go elsewhere.

Chas

The fact that no-one respondes to a comment, whether by Anchor or Slowbom, does not mean that it is accepted or "prooved". As an example, I do not agree with either, but I don't feel inclined to dignify them with any response.

joe

I,m sorry to say but before the Eastern europeans arrived, many people had to wait 20 then 18 then 15 and finally 10 years for residential qualifications... nothing new.

Anka you say that you have to pay hight rent ,have to work below your qualifications, etc, I don't think so, living in jersey is your choice and you don't have to endure all the hardship, the fall of the berlin hall gave you the freedom of choice , and despite all it seems that jersey is a far better place to live, and educate children than the former eastern block .

Rentokil

Jersey people have been protected? Are you mental?!

Sliwerk

Learn how to answers below the original post.

A clue – there is a small cloud picture on the right top corner in every post box, with ‘Reply’ word inside – have you ever wondered what is this for ?

C Le Verdic

There wasn't a lot wrong with the old system where all comments were published in chronological order and reply posters with any sense would quote the number of the post they were commenting on. One could always check back if really needed but most of the time we just moved on knowing that all the latest posts would be at the end of the thread and could quickly be digested.

Since the facelift, it takes far longer to check for new comments on busy threads. This is because one has to keep referring make to the summary page after reading each new post. With short threads it is often easier to skim read the entire thread for new submissions.

I can see the point of the present format but it is more time consuming.

I would like to get out more but find it harder to get my regular 'You Say' browsing out of the way quickly enough to leave me sufficient time.

Parktown Prawn

Anka

Firstly....I take offence at the term "Jersey bean" and see it as a racist remark, especially considering the term is never used in a nice way, so please cease using that term whilst you are a guest of the island.

Secondly, "your taxes" are paid from money you have earned from working in this island! If Jersey did not provide you with an opportunity to work and live here then you would have no money to be paying your taxes. Everyone who works pays taxes...not just immigrants. Understand?

Ask yourself why YOU have left YOUR homeland to come to a small island like Jersey....

You were not forced to come here and you are free to go anywhere else you please if you do not like it.

However, for the local resident who has made the island their home, it is not so easy.

Living standards have dropped significantly for everyone in this island, particularly since the huge influx of eastern europeans above all other nationalities that have arrived on these shores over the years.

Crime has risen dramatically (particularly serious crime), the level of service has dropped (mostly due to ignorance and language barriers).

Generally there is an underlying social unrest.I have never known such a social divide between local and immigrant as we have now.

I know for a fact your compatriots at "home" would not be as accepting of us foreigners if we all moved en masse to take their work.

Maybe you should actually start to show your hosts a bit more gratitude and courtesy for what you have been offered the opportunity to achieve here.......it has to be better then what was offered to you at home otherwise you'd still be there!

Anka

Firstly - I have heard Jersey people use the expression "Jersey bean" themselves and it was never meant, or taken, offensively.

If you felt offended then I apologize, that wasn't my intention.

I don't agree with your comment about crime, when reading that section in JEP one sees Polish names not more often than other nationalities.

When it comes to the level of service I disagree again but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I don't know if you noticed but in my post I was responding to the previous comments about how immigrants come to Jersey and make demands on the government.

And my main point was that immigrants have very little rights in Jersey; it's absolutely true nobody is keeping us here but saying that we are trying to abuse Jersey is in my mind unfair.

I live here because I like living here, I don't steal, I work hard and I have no intention of "abusing the system".

Would I like it if my country experienced a flood of immigrants? Probably not. But then can you blame people for grabbing a chance for a better life?

Jersey Eco Warrior

# Ragpud - Hear! Hear!

ragpud

The 5 year rule! What happened to that ?

Here's a thought...

Anyone that finished their GCSEs will have learnt about the predator and prey cycles... If there is a large amount of prey (in this case "jobs") the predator (let's not say immigrants, an immigrant is just someone who used to be somewhere else - "workers") population will also increase. In other words - if there are many jobs then people will come over to fill them. A bit like the law of supply and demand as well I suppose. However, the predator species feeding on the prey will eventually run out of food and their numbers will drop allowing the prey to breed again and grow in numbers once more. If the number of jobs drops like it has then people will inevitably leave. Now who's more likely to leave - the local who grew up here or the person who has family and friends somewhere else...

This is a natural cycle, keep your occupation inspired cards and just let it go round...

Dave Mcvay

If there is a five year rule how come there a so many cars with foreign number plates , I thought there was a time limit to change to a j plate

Shards

Dave - You are correct.

If you 'intend' to or have lived in Jersey for more than 12 months, you are not allowed to drive a foreign (apologies if I offended anyone by using the 'f' word)registered vehicle in Jersey. You must re-register it immediately.

As with virtually all vehicle/driving offences it's just not policed.

Real Truthseeker

I believe it is 3 months. Either way, it is the same in most countries - the law and lack of policing. Does it really matter though? Registration is about insurance / traceability. So it is really an irrelevant issue ...

Propaganda

There is no period of grace, if you have moved to Jersey intending to stay you need to book your car in for an inspection straight away.

Likewise, any local resident who imports a foreign car has no period of grace to register on Jersey plates.

White number plates

Driving around on foreign plates is policed with amazing zeal if you are a Jersey person. The failure to enforce the law seems only to apply to a particular sector.

Shane

How can our government be so out of touch with this island, this is merely conforming to the European Convention on Human Rights which was domesticated by the Jersey Human Rights Bill; too little too late where that is concerned.

But what happened to immigration control to make certain that my daughters might have the opportunity of a career when there older or indeed myself before I retire.

It's about time that those who are concerned stood up as we can no longer rely upon the States of Jersey, they are politically and socially impotent.

Real Truthseeker

Jersey has no power to set it's own immigration law. The UK Immigration Act covers the UK and British Isles and unable to set our own. Look at article in Letters To Editor. Explains it well re: Immigration.

Sue

Jersey can set its own immigration law and may well do so if this continues.

jerraz

Reading all above i come to the conclusion that most of the islanders are just racists!

This Island is trying to show it's Political correctness but in truth is nothing but abuse and racists.

Not only Portuguese, Polish, Romanian and Bugarians are immigrants, it's also English, Scottish, Irish...

All workers are paying taxes and social but only immigrants are willing to worki 40 or over hours a week at £6-7 per hour to pay off theis rents (most of the time over charged for very poor condition flats or rooms)and they don't get any thing else back fot that, were locclas can get all the beneficts without 5,10 whatever years restrictions!

More money earned means more tax and social paid into the system. At the same time local islanders working part-time or just enough to cover cost at £8-10per hour.

Which one of the locals will go to work as waiter or barman or housekeeper for £7 ? Thats is £280.00 per week based on 40 wours less 11% (let's say 5% tax and 6% social) that leaves you with £249.20 a week! Well thats sounds ok for a young person leaving with parents(locally) but try to keep a houshold for that.

"6

andy

January 12, 2013 at 6:23 pm

too little too late!! close all doors now"

" Overpopulated

January 14, 2013 at 8:42 am

I wonder if our glorious government have any plan for the flood of Romanians and Bugarians heading this way from 2014, the Uk government is already panicing.

Hundreds of thousands all with children and grannies "

"

7

Josse

January 12, 2013 at 9:26 pm

sadly ths should of been done years ago. then islanders maybe in work and not unemployed. Instead of eastern europeans"

Overpopulated

Racist - ie a person who lives in the real world and can see the problems that thousands of immigrants have brought to our tiny island.

The same is true of people who dare to raise the question in the UK where people are being told that millions of new houses should be build over lovely countryside because of mass immigration

jerraz

Overpopulated - with your reply you have just admitted how racist you are. By blaming legally working immigrant for bringing problems to the island, what sort of a problem did the immigration brought that you never had before?

If one day all the immigrants were to leave the island at the same time you would be left with loads of empty flats and no cash flow and form being a LandLords you'd have to serve your lunch, become a housekeeper etc..

Overall - I think you problem is that eastern European immigrant have now started having better jobs (like finance or working for states) wanting nicer and cleaner flats, things that are quite obvious for you and that's so wrong(irony)

Well we are where we are because of hard work not because someone roll out the red carpet in front of us.

Sensible

The only way to deal with this "wacist" silliness is for all of us who care about the island to say that we are (ahem) "racist" and proud of it. Once we do that, we can start to move forward and sort our island out.

Sensible

That "Sensible" is not me!

Dave C

It's also obvious that the first Sensible, is not sensible.

Sensible 2

Apologies, it is me.

Sensible

It is obvious that the first Dave C is not Dave C.

Overpopulated

So our recent immigrants think they will get all the 'well paid' jobs.

Funny that many locals and long established immigrants with experience and high skills cannot find well paid jobs. I also know well paid locals who are worried that their jobs will come to an end this year due to the downturn in banking.

I always wonder why immigrants come to a tiny island, whine about the accommodation when they could have gone to places like London, Germany etc and walked into well paid employment and luxurious flats.

Beardie Boardie

Quite a few come for the surf, Overpopulated. They put up with everything else, including having to work to pay for the HP on the £35,000 VW T5.

roombay42

I disagree that islanders are racist. Jersey has always absorbed other nationalities in the past. Scots, Irish, Welsh, English, French, Italians, Spanish and Portugese have all come in great numbers over the last 175 years and been made welcome.

The trouble is that, lately, there have been too many incomers in too short a time for us to be able to absorb them and our culture has been over-ridden by newcomers who 'know their rights' to our detriment.

C Le Verdic

Most incomers tend to be made welcome as long as they appear to be potential sexual/marriage partners.

Drunks, scroungers and those who don't mix tend to attract hostility and negative comments on their place of origin.

Jersey Eco Warrior

I think the terms 'racist' and 'bigot' need redefining. Tribal pride and fighting for ones island is more appropriate. My fear is what is it going to be like one, five, ten years down the line. What decisions are not taken today will affect not only us but all future generations and people who live here. It is easy to destroy but far less easy to create. I am a highly educated and skilled born local about to face unemployment and I know for a fact that I will find it hard to get work. It took me 8 months the last time and, yes, I am prepared to work for the minimum wage but know that I am up against stiff competition for unskilled work. Also, I have paid taxes for forty years and claimed nothing in return.It gets to the point where you ask the question 'What is this all about?'.

Real Truthseeker

Jerraz - ignore the bigots, you are SPOT ON!

Parktown Prawn

RT

You can talk!!

You do nothing but moan and insult the very people who allowed you opportunities here in Jersey.

Your own country didn't offer you these same opportunities otherwise why do you remain in a place you clearly despise!!

People like you need to look inwards at yourselves before criticising others!

You wouldn't know what being a "native" to a country is all about.

Unless you are a native Maori then as an "immigrant" New Zealander you are no doubt some kind of bigot in your own country too.

Funny that hey!

Parktown Prawn

Jerraz

"Reading all above i come to the conclusion that most of the islanders are just racists!"

Well, I have been to Poland my dear sir....and to say they were hostile and rude to us "foreigners" would be a massive understatement!

Eastern Europe is renowned for its racism, particularly seen at football matches.

Don't throw stones in glass houses!

"I wonder if our glorious government have any plan for the flood of Romanians and Bugarians heading this way from 2014, the Uk government is already panicing."

....and what is YOUR government doing in YOUR homeland to try and keep its so called "skilled" workers there to improve its own economy????

Maybe you should look at your own country and government before criticising others!

BTW, you harp on about paying taxes, but judging by your example (£280 per week wage) this amounts to annual earnings of £14,560. The threshold for a single person's tax is £13,370. This means you are only taxed 27% on £1190 = £321.30 .... for the year!

You say you are contributing....hardly....this is pitiful so stop complaining. There are many "average" Jersey wage earners paying 20 or 30 times more than this.

jerseythepartiesover

For a laugh, you will like this, lets all us on say April Fools Day just leave the island and go to Warsaw, 50,000 beans turning up and saying we have decided to swap with your country for a year, where is your Social Security Department and where can I buy a pram.

This is said in jest but why does it not happen the other way around? I never see Polish newspapers complaining about Brits taking their jobs.

God's Own Island

What on earth would we want to go to Warsaw for?

Not difficult to see why they come here!

You'd probably die in Warsaw at this time of year without a job. Does it get tolerable by April 1st?

irish

I live in jersey from 1983 to 1994 mydaughter was born there we live ina one room bedsetter my daughter bed room was closset under a stear way when slavery was ithe usa 1700 they live better than us jersey still lives in dark ages but Igot out of jersy couldent but up with there bullshit if poeple are still liveing under these con should leave no one has to live like that there plenty of other places to go the germans took overjersey in1940 Ithink there still there

Sensible

Did you write that post in Gaelic as I cannot understand a word of it....

pp

The plain fact of the matter is that we live on a 9 miles by 5 rock in the middle of the Channel. We have limited space and resources and for the sake of the greater good, have some unpalatable decisions to make. If you want to call people who want better living conditions for their families "Racist", then most of the world is just that! People from outside any community will be blamed for social/economic issues in most parts of the world! What we do need to do is put proper controls in place and deal with the biggest problem, which is unemployment. Our beloved States members must be made to listen to the public and forced to do their jobs, which means doing right by the people of the island! Forget about the petty power struggles that go on in the States chambers and actually do something positive, other than lining your pockets off the backs of everyone else!

roombay42

A lot of the problem is cultural, not racist.

Ragpud

Anka if I was trying to seek work in your country my prospects would be zero ! Therefore there would be no benefit for me .but you come to jersey knowing our system, claiming for benefits you would not receive in your own country

Real Truthseeker

Only reason it woudl be zero is you haven;t learnt the language. At least Eastern Europeans made that effort. Good luck to them.

Yan

You wouldn't get past the door if you spoke ten languages!

Parktown Prawn

RT

Not all of them CAN speak english though....and the ones that can (to some extent) do not necessarily understand it properly.....and that is a big problem in my opinion!

Overpopulated

And today on the ITV website it states that there are now 359 children in our schools who cannot speak English.

How much is this costing taxpayers? How can the parents be working here if they don't speak English? Their tax for the year would not cover this cost let alone pay for any Jersey persons pensions.

What a total disaster

JACA

Some of the islanders mentality never ceases to amaze me, Hitler would be proud.

You all complain about the number of foreigners. Am I the only person who was annoyed that when job hunting I was unable to "compete" against the unqualified, let the best man/women get the job...

If one is "low skilled" then instead of heading to the local pub on a Friday/Saturday, why not spend the time and money educating yourselves?

One last reminder... There is a big world out there, you may have to do what billions of others do... Emigrate.

ragpud

learn to spell Irish !

Slawek

Learn how to answer below the original post.

A clue - there is a small cloud picture on the right top corner in every post box, with 'Reply' word inside - have you ever wondered what is this for ?

Real Truthseeker

Good article written by a Mr John Davis about the truth behind immigration in Jersey in Letters on Monday or Tuesday. If you want to know the basis which makes immigration bashers look ridiculous - maybe take time to read it!!!

Twist

I don't want to know. I just want someone to stop the island being overrun.

Sheep

Err, yes, RT. A pro-immigration letter written by someone who begins his letter by stating that he has migrated to Jersey- no conflict there then!

Overpopulated

Yes, someone who does not remember not long ago when the roads were not like motorways, rubbish was not thrown in every hedge row and some developer was not building 'much needed houses' (now still for sale) everywhere.

And you did not have to wait 12 months to see a specialist.

jerraz

I realy don't understand why you can see thta immigration is a burst for your economy. Just look at 2011 Census report: http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20CensusReport%2020120808%20SU.pdf PAGE 8

jerraz

I realy don't understand why you can see thta immigration is a burst for your economy. Just look at 2011 Census report: http://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDocuments/Government%20and%20administration/R%20CensusReport%2020120808%20SU.pdf

PAGE 8

there you can see how many people in Jersey are immigrants, and most of them are in working age!!!

So just think for a sec. All money made in Jersy is spend in Jersey on Grocery, clothes, pertol etc..also people with childerns spend even more. So if you kick out all immigrants out of the Island you will be left with plenty of jobes but no hands to do it and all sales will be down.

Arording to Jersey statiscics department there are 1740 unemployedo that is something like 3% out of 64k working age! Its not much, and majority don't work because they don't have the job they would like not because there is no job!

When i was store magager i have employed jersey born sales assistant, after 1st week that person started comming late 5-10 min, taking a bit longer tea breaks, so we had a chat then fisr verbal worning and then written but nothing worked to improve the time keeping while other staff have to do more work. That person told me that would preffer to be sacked and claiming income support as a single parent as it was better off financially than working for £8.00ph

So how does the immigrants take over jobs from locals if they don't want the job?

Another thint is thta regulations of 5 years or propsed id card will breach the EU law (human rights)

Sandra

What is worrying is that you were in a position of authority over a Jersey person, Jerraz. It is also worrying that you don't seem to be able to write properly. How did you manage to string a written warning together?

SCJACA

Why would it be worrying that Jerraz was in a position of authority over a Jersey "person"?

In regards to Jerraz and a written warning... I hate to break to you Sandra but if the organisation for which he worked for is large enough, it would be the HR department dealing with any written warnings...

Sandra

Well, that is a relief. Thank you for the reassurance. Phew!

C Le Verdic

Well, I worked for, or should I say, was employed by, a very large organisation. It was my line manager who gave me written warnings, not HR (or personnel as it used to be called). Luckily, she didn't copy them to to anyone influential!

HR bod

Presumably she knew how to string a sentence together.

C Le Verdic

Funny that you should mention sentences, HR bod, she was also a magistrate. She could have had me strung up, if I hadn't been so lucky having such a wise and worldly boss!

Phil

Whether it be a human resources department or otherwise, it is odd to see someone claiming to exercise authority over a local in their own island when the one who claims to exercise authority can't even be bothered to write properly. Clearly, the "position of authority" did not follow any aptitude test.

jerraz

It looks like you have't got any better arguments so you pick on my spelling. Well for your information i'm dyslectic and i have the same problem even in my native language.

I thing someone has mention in this conversation that "Jersey still lives in dark ages" - couldn't agree more.

Phil

But why stay if it's so bad and in the "dark ages"- ?

Gus

How did you know that you gave the written warning to the right person?

Parktown Prawn

Jerraz

"All money made in Jersy is spend in Jersey on Grocery, clothes, pertol etc"

Now you know that is not entirely true!!

How much money is transferred out of Jersey back to your homeland, to family or simply savings for a better life when you return??

"..also people with childerns spend even more"

Does that include paying for the interpreters in schools for all those who cannot speak the native language?

Thought not!

Those my dear sir are examples of a DRAIN on our economy!

You say "When i was store magager i have employed jersey born sales assistant".

Please explain why, exactly, you hired this person above other applicants then......are your judgement of character or interviewing skills lacking perhaps?

Jerraz

I had to employ person with 5 years residency and at the time there was no one else, so it's not my skills but the law.

Parktown Prawn

Presumably you sacked this person.....so how did you fill the role afterwards....if the 5 year residency law restricted your hiring?

Why can't/didn't you explain this to the Social Security Department?

I am sure they would be very interested to hear nobody else applied for this job when we have so many on unemployment benefit!

Euro-sceptic

It sounds a bit of a tall story to me, Jerraz.

Anka

Euro-Sceptic

I have heard more than one story of that kind, about poor time keeping, not coming to work on Mondays, not doing the job etc, from owners/managers of companies. Some people prefer the benefits if they are available

Euro-Socialist

More than one tall story does not make a valid one, particularly when the pot calls the kettle black.

Parktown Prawn

Anka

...and this is one of the points I was trying to make above.

A lot of non-natives like to justify their presence in the island by claiming the natives are "lazy", "stupid", "unskilled" or whatever.

Yes there are some, but there are also many non-natives who fit those descriptions.

I have worked with many hard working, clever and skilled natives.

I have also worked with many "lazy", "stupid" and "unskilled" non-natives.

Should I assume all non-natives are the same?

No? Then why do most non-natives think the same towards all natives?

Sanity

The headline should read that “YOU WILL REQUIRE A PERMIT” to move residence or job. Under user pays this will cost you money. That the government also have some control over your movements is a mere bonus for the civil servants.

jerraz

I think we are a bit off the topic now, the idea is that the states want to bring id card which will cost taxpayers more!

I don't understand why some locals are so much against immigrants and can't see the real problem, you say "local" but look around how many businesses are just jersey branches, that is real DRAIN of jersey economy-Parktown Prawn

I've always support local because i wanted to be the part of the community but this trend of anti immigration changed my opinion about Jersey.

I agree that this is small island and can only fit it that much and some solution is needed but there is no need for any abuse like:

"Sandra

January 17, 2013 at 3:10 pm

What is worrying is that you were in a position of authority over a Jersey person"

how I am different or worst than the local? What makes you better that the legal immigrant

and also what it mean local any more? A real jersey born from generation to generation?

You say "Heritage" so why you almost forgotten your language - Jèrriais?

Parktown Prawn

Jerraz

"how many businesses are just jersey branches"

Well, a lot of them, particularly in finance, have an international customer base Jerraz. They employ local residents who spend the money locally on rents and living expenses...(except where people shop online or send their mney back "home").

This scenario is NOT a drain on the economy. Can you differentiate?

"I’ve always support local because i wanted to be the part of the community but this trend of anti immigration changed my opinion about Jersey."

Well, you know what?

We've always welcomed immigrants and wanted them to be a part of the community but this recent trend of anti-local and failure to integrate into OUR society has changed my opinion about immigrants!

Sandra

What is worrying is that you were in a position of authority over a Jersey person.

Mrs

Omg what a discussion. I am imigrant myself. Live here 3 years and during this time I really can see how Jersey is changing!! And not for the better...

When I came here it looked like heaven - nice and smiling people, beautiful nature, wasn't difficult to find job, appartment. What else do u need? And what now? More and more not really friendly people coming( don't want to be rasist but u probably know what I am talking about), sitting in the parks, drinking alcohol, later "looking for problems", going steal.. So this what we have now. But can u think what will happen when all Bulgarians with families will come? Jersey will change completely... Because of different culture...different living style. But like I said, I am just an immigrant and I will not sit here like polish people and cry for them rights... I just will emigrate. Coz it will not be left the jersey I saw first time

puffin

It really is quite frightening when someone who has only been here for 3 years can see just how much it has changed in that short space of time :(

Francis

I welcome people like "Mrs", what a pity more of our incomers are not like that. They often seem so arrogant and disinclined to respect Jersey and the Jersey people, yet they want to reamin here. We certainly need to legislate before we have all of the eastern european countries' migrant workers heading here to crowd ten to a room and then complain about it.

I salute you, madam and wish you all the best.

Mrs

Thanks Francis

The thing is what I wanted to say - we (all immigrants) are just guests here, no matter how long we live here. All we need to do - to respect locals, them culture, law.

Talking about arrogance - oh yes. I really don't want to be rasist but... Dont need to go far away. Just go to big Boots... Makes me sick of that polish language everywhere between sales assistants. They just should be banned talk the language. I think it is rude. Sorry but it is just my opinion. Just like I said - u HAVE to respect country and people where u live