Speed limits to be reduced across Island?

SPEED limits could be coming down across the Island in an attempt to reduce Jersey’s high rate of serious injuries on the roads.

the speed limit on part of Petite Route des Mielles would become 20 mph
the speed limit on part of Petite Route des Mielles would become 20 mph

SPEED limits could be coming down across the Island in an attempt to reduce Jersey’s high rate of serious injuries on the roads.

Transport Minister Kevin Lewis announced yesterday that he wanted to hear Islanders’ views on his department’s plans to create more 20 and 30 mph zones in St Brelade, St Helier, St John, St Mary, St Peter, Trinity and Grouville.

The roads included in the consultation were chosen as a result of concerns expressed by both residents and parish Constables, with some having been the focus of speed checks by TTS.

Comments for: "Speed limits to be reduced across Island?"

Overpopulated

There is no point in changing speed limits, unless they are ENFORCED

In places where speeding is common and by schools, SPEED CAMERAS and a points system whereby you lose your licence like in the UK

Jon

Yes to a points system, also follow the UK example where new drivers have a probationary period, if the are charged with a motoring offence during the first couple of years of driving they face having to re-sit their tests.

No to fixed speed cameras they're an eyesore and very inflexible. The SoJP already have a mobile speed camera, however it caught so many speeders in a relatively short space of time when it was last deployed it over-loaded the current PHE system. Maybe a re-think is needed here !

The Future

Yes yes yes, there is no need for speed on an island this small.

I Pasdenom

Define 'need' for the purpose of your argument.

Do you see any 'need' for car transport at all?

If you see no 'need' for speed, but do see a 'need' for car transports would you be happy with a 5mph speed limit?

It's perfectly okay to say yes, but you should recognise that you are in the tiny minority, and no reasonable society should have to pander to your unreasonable wants.

shhhhhhhhh

http://www.gov.je/Government/Consultations/Pages/SpeedLimits.aspx

Key link missing from the above story

Tobias

People who ignore the speed limits will continue to ignore them whether they be set at 20,30,40 or 50 mph. This will only penalise the law-abiding motorists and have zero effect on the boy racers and arrogant prats who disregard speed limits.

If they want to reduce accidents then they should install speed cameras, preferably set to catch motorists who are significantly (8+mph) over the limit, rather than using these as a source of great revenue to fine someone merely a couple of miles per hour over.

Putting up an occasional speed trap does not work for the real idiotic boy racers, as they just get their information from a "certain" well-known page on Facebook which informs them where the traps are and thus continue to drive like maniacs with relative impunity. What enlightened times we live in.

Mike

Agreed.

Pointless, except as revenue-earning for the Parish/States.

Speed limits have no effect on those who choose to ignore them.

Traffic calming measures (such as speed bumps, chicanes etc) cannot be ignored.

I Pasdenom

Mike "...Traffic calming measures (such as speed bumps, chicanes etc) cannot be ignored."

But also aren't the best answer.

Only better policing and training are the answer.

Rozel Aubin

Speed humps are the motoring equivalent of keeping an entire class in detention as punishment for the sins of individual miscreants.

Si

So true but, yet again, this isn't about safety and saving lives, it is about easy money!

If they just took licences off of people who drive dangerously, and stop treating licences as if they are a human right, then you'd see a decrease in the amount of dangerous driving (mostly because the idiots were no longer allowed behind the wheel).

kermit

Speed bumps had to be removed in some places (abroad) for the ambulances. Not such a good idea after all.

Kenneth

It's all good but reducing speed limits causes even more accidents. You'll have more people overtaking & the you have a problem.

Donald Campbell

My perspective on speed, for what its worth!

If you lower various areas from say 30 to 20, those that choose to ignore and drive slightly above the set level will at least now be moving along at 25 as opposed to 35 or 40.

Even this 10 mph decrease has significant improvements in reducing serious injury.

Not the answer I know, but a step in the right direction.

Si

It will cost businesses because deliveries will take longer. People will need to leave more time between meetings etc. Yes we're talking small amounts, but it adds up.

I would be totally for this if I believed for two seconds that we would see any difference in road safety. But I believe that the biggest difference would be achieved by teaching pedestrians and cyclists how to behave, and by tackling proven dangerous drivers (i.e. by removing their licences for life).

I've seen too many pedestrians behave recklessly next to roads, and it really doesn't matter what speed the driver is doing, any speed could kill the pedestrian given the 'right' circumstances.

Bunny

I doubt it is people driving at 30MPH or 40MPH legally in the correct areas causing these accidents, it is the people who already speed. How will dropping the speed limits change those people? It will not. Just enforce the current limits!

As for the TTS proposals, have a look on gov.je and you will note that half of the limits they have on their maps are incorrect and many of their proposed changes have been in place for years ready. I wonder if they bothered to visit the roads, or if they just used an old map and the obligatory UK consultant?

CabDriver

This wont stop the boy racers. They mainly speed at night,very late at night. As a cab driver I see this happening all the time.

happyhelly

That's really strange what you're saying. When I am driving at 40mph along Victoria Avenue, its always the cab drivers that are overtaking and speeding to get to the airport. Pot calling kettle black comes to mind.

Cynic

As a taxi driver you would also know that your fellow taxi drivers can be included in those speeding at night.

40-50+ in 30MPH zones in the outer parishes? Yup, no problems for taxi drivers.

CC

Ridiculous waste of time and money. The speed limits are just fine how they are. If they're really serious about road safety, how about fixing the thousands of pot holes and shoddy repair work that are far more of a hazard, particularly for those on two wheels.

mrbean

Do you not think it would be better to teach people to drive properly instead of trying to make every one drive at walking pace??????

most people dont even know how to use an indicator in Jersey.

Jon B

Exactly!! Whether people are completely incapable of indicating or choose not to is irrelevant - the standard of driving in Jersey is brutal. As already mentioned, lowering the speed limit will only affect those who abide by it, and generally speaking those who abide by it do not cause accidents (unless they're not using their indicators properly!!)

Zoro

Kevin Lewis what are you talking about this time,master of the single entendre, the flippin traffic crawls along at snails pace now..I estimate the average speed to be about 26 M.P.H.....apart from those crazy little devils in hot hatches who frequent the burger bar car park....now you know where to find them..the rest of us are slowed by the sheer volume of traffic..Dho...?

CP

Is speed really to blame for the accidents, or is it drivers not paying attention? I've witnessed 3 collisions occurring in traffic jams on my way to work.

Parktown Prawn

Exactly, and how many people are running amber and even red lights now because the traffic is so slow. I see at least 1 or 2 cars do this every morning on my way to work.

How many women are still doing their make-up in the rear view mirror?

How many people are still smoking/texting/eating behind the wheel?

How dangerous are the roads with pot holes and uneven surfaces everywhere?

How many inconsiderates park on yellow lines or even pavements to pop into a shop or pick up their kids/friends/fares?

How many roadworks do we have to have before whatever they are doing is fixed?

What was the real cause for all of the road accidents? Were they all caused by excessive speed or was there other factors such as driver/other road user negligence?

Where is the traffic police?

Where are the traffic wardens?

Please answer some of these questions before reducing speed limits Mr Lewis.

Jersey speed limits do not kill!

Jersey speed limits do not kill! Ignorant people do!

"How dangerous are the roads with pot holes and uneven surfaces everywhere?"

YET

"How many roadworks do we have to have before whatever they are doing is fixed?"

"How many inconsiderate [people] park on yellow lines or even pavements to pop into a shop or pick up their kids/friends/fares?"

YET

It is practical, as is going a reasonable speed. We all (most) do so. Most shops etc. don't have enough room not to.

"Where are the traffic wardens?"

YET

They even work Sundays (at least in St. Helier)

I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the speed limit of most of the esplanade and the 5 mile road to 50 mph and the placing of fixed genuine working cameras. Make it known to islanders and arriving tourists. Avoid the late night racers! Maybe even increasing some other road's limits, where practical. And likewise decrease some, but only where there is genuine need?

Si

Or pedestrians being stupid? That definitely causes some accidents, but the driver will always be blamed, pedestrians can do no wrong.

I believe driving in Jersey is already more dangerous than elsewhere because the speed is so low. Such low speed causes people to not pay quite so much attention, to become a bit blase. THAT is certainly dangerous, and lowering the speed limit will bring more of it.

Nervous Walker

Drivers who want to speed will ignore the limit whatever it is.

Is speed the cause of most of these injuries? I think it's a lack of pavements or at least safe paths to walk on.

I notice the link to the consultation provides no accident data or anything other than some edicts.

Why and how have these areas been selected? Drawn from a hat? Population density? Number of accidents in these areas?

Neil

As a regular driver through town, the biggest dangers are not speed, it is the gormless clowns in a world of their own listening to iPods and the like or lunch is for wimps types rabbiting away on their phones like they are making the deal of the century, neither seem to realise that there are roads and stuff in town....

Loco

How about we use some logic and look back at the deaths/crashes we've had in recent history, and judge whether the 30mph speed limit was the limiting factor?

Lotus elise & Latvian girl - Performance car smashed up beyond recognition. Clearly was driving absurdly fast, and a 10mph speed limit drop would have made no difference.

Crash at haute Croix: no seatbelts, seemingly missed the junction entirely. 10mph drop would make no difference.

Two guys on bike Near rozel: drunk. no helmets.

Crash outside Trinity post office: was overtaking parked cars and more than likely speeding. 10mph drop in speed limit would have made no difference.

Gloucester street going backwards into Chinese restaurant: Again, clearly speeding well in excess of the limit. a 30 ,20 or even 10mph speed limit will have made no difference.

The point is, those who drive responsibly will continue to do so. Lowering speed limits more and more will only increase frustration and reduce concentration of the drivers. Those who drive well in excess of the limit already disregard speed limits, so this change will make no difference.

These changes will only punish the law abiding.

Some sensible traffic calming measures could be in order outside schools, however. Not like the ridiculous roadblocks at St. Mary's, but something a little smarter, like removing the white line down the centre of the road which has been found to make drivers far more cautious and drive slower, without holding up traffic or damaging vehicles (speed bumps).

Chris Pace

Amen to that!

Si

Use logic???????

We're in Jersey Loco!

Warren J

I am bemused by all of this - In 35 years of driving, I have been involved in two accidents, the first caused by someone suddenly taking off from a red light as he had looked at the wrong light, and the second being rear ended by a land rover. Speed was not an issue in either accidents. Also, speed and stopping distances vary according to the vehicle - a large lorry or bus does not have the stopping distance of my Mercedes which is equipped with brake assist ! An other vehicle that I own is quite basic, and in all honesty, if I had to carry out an emergency stop, I would rather be in the Mercedes with aforementioned Brake Assist and ABS. Speak to any driver of large commercial vehicles and you will be astounded at the long stopping distances compared with private cars !

One issue that does concern me with local driving is the way that motorists overtake cyclists and pedestrians without being certain that there is nothing coming the other way ! If it is not safe to overtake, hang back !

Alex

Agree with 9 & 10 above. The speed limits are fine as they are.

The problem is that some motorist do not know how to drive properly or follow the highway code. I regularly see motorists failing to indicate, cutting corners, using mobile phones whilst driving, failing to stop at junctions & pedestrian crossings, driving too fast for the road conditions etc. I suspect that these driving habits are the cause of the majority of accidents on the island, and until this is policed appropriately there will not be a significant reduction in accidents.

Bowie 2

Bicycles and ox drawn carts is what I say

Truth

The speed limits are fine, the issue is the people who do not follow the current speed limit not just be speeding but also by driving to slow and causing a hazard! Also I believe driving tests are to easy and people passing their tests are not as qualified as they should be to drive! Don't change the speed limit just enforce the current limits and make drivers better!

Constables OUT

Sort out the traffic in St Saviour as YOU & other politicians in St Saviour keep promising every election

Yummy Mummy

As a Mother of two, I regularly collect my son from his school (walking) and note that it is not just boy racers that are the problem, but also the mothers/fathers collecting or taking their "precious little ones" with blatant disregard to the safetly of other peoples children. I am talking about the road in between St Clements School and St Clements Church, the pavement is extremely narrow and the speed limit is supposed to be 30mph, what a joke. Personally I think there should be speed cameras on that stretch, or police officers occasionally for the school runs, I think they would be shocked at some of the speeds that people go along that stretch!!!!

Overpopulated

I think you will find this is the same around all the schools. CCTV and speed cameras outside the school gates might help reduce the bad driving, but they will wait until a child is killed

Mjolnir de Jersiaise

The trouble is that when the Police are there, they make themselves highly visible causing everyone to put on their 'fine upstanding citizen', 'pillar of the community' act. After a couple of sessions, the Police are convinced there is no problem and you don't see them again. As soon as they are gone, they all drop the act and resume driving like the aggressive, arrogant, selfish motorists that they really are...

yesrej evol i

When it comes to motoring, Jersey is a pretty much lawless state, the amount of people on their phones talking and texting and the speed that 70%of drivers that go down st peters valley, well in excess of 50/60/and up to 70 mph..and never ever see any police enforcing the speed limit,.....and if you listen to the radio on 103fm they tell you were the speed traps are operating that day hahahahahaha what a lawless island jersey is when it comes to motoring..

Jon

It's a gamble akin to horse racing, speeding, parking illegally, using mobile phone whilst in a moving motor vehicle, drink driving etc

Yes they will win/get away with it, possibly more often than not, but in the end will loose/get caught or reported.

Sadly SOJP are under resourced so can only concentrate on certain aspects of the motor traffic law at anyone time or if they get lucky and spot an offender before they spot them in their hi vis outfits.

Also the speeding units they use, though they are very good, can only be used on certain roads, where they are long enough straights to get a good lock on and a safe area to pull offenders into.

Certain Parishes such as St Brelade have plenty of these roads where speed checks can be conducted safely others such as Trinity only have a couple of roads where they can do the same.

Observer

I drive a lot and am appalled that my speedometer is obviously inaccurate.

As I bumble along at an indicated 25/30 or rarely 35 MPH with the rest of the traffic rarely being overtaken except by bicycles who go on the outside and the inside often at the same times its clear that I am deceiving myself by believing my instrumentation.

Clearly I should be fitted with 'yesrej evol i's

calibrated eye balls that would show that I am doing at lease double what my speedo says!

Is 'yesrej evol i' an anagram of 'should have gone to specsavers'???

Mjolnir de Jersiaise

On the main road, that runs past Belle Vue (a 30mph limit), I regularly see people shooting past at around 50 miles per-hour (and faster), when children are trying to cross. It's not just 'boy racers' either; I see big 4x4s, BMWs, Fords, Vans, Lorries, Mercedes and, well, pretty much all types of people.

The Police are rarely there, and, when they are, they make it so obvious that everyone is on their best behaviour - model citizens all - and nobody ever gets caught. As soon as they've gone, it's business as usual...

If they reduce the limit to 20mph it won't make any difference whatsoever.

It is my experience, driving on the roads of Jersey, that the vast majority of drivers are already exasperated at the current speed limits and aggressively flout them at every opportunity. Reducing them will only increase the number of road-rage incidents. I find that the best way to annoy almost every one on the roads, is to stick rigidly to the current speed limits; I have a lot of fun doing that, and watching the red, angry faces driving two inches behind my rear bumper, shouting profanities, whilst a queue of red, angry faces builds up behind them!

Jon

Strictly not true, both SOJP and St Brelade HP regularly do speed checks along that stretch of Route du Quennevais, I've seen them several times in the past couple of weeks, both pointing the gun and talking to errant drivers.

If it is a real concern to you, why not sign up to the HP and help them to monitor and reduce the speed along there ?

60 Plus

Maybe they should go down to the extremity of the parish and time the boy racers and bikers around the 'Corbiere Loop'. One of Jersey's popular unofficial racing circuits.

Mjolnir de Jersiaise

It's their high-visibility which is useless. Drivers just go on their best behaviour when they can see the Police from miles away. As soon as the Police have gone, the drivers return to their usual idiocy. The Police seem to be operating a policy of 'giving drivers a gentle reminder, with no intention to prosecute'.

Recently I saw my own daughter 'trapped' on the island, in the middle of the road, with a constant stream of traffic doing around fifty miles per hour - on both sides of the road. Fortunately I was in my car and was able to stop the traffic and let her cross...

I think they should conceal themselves and have every intention of prosecuting speeders; and do it often. That way, drivers might think twice about flouting the law as much as they do.

Mogit

"Total waste of OUR money by the lunatic Greens, even the Police say a blanket 20mph is daft, they don't support it, they won't be actively enforcing it either!

Targeted 20mph on smaller side streets is fine, and outside schools etc, but larger or main roads is a total joke !!!

Cue more pollution now as catalytic converters on cars don't work unless kept at high temperature... Well done Greens, increase pollution with your vanity projects."

Part of an article regarding a recent downgrading of speed limits in Brighton and Hove, just goes to show our illustrious Members haven't got a bloody clue either !!!

Si

Cyclist pulled out in front of me today. I was on a main road going 5mph below the speed limit, he came out of a side road (one that has a clear Give Way sign and the road lines, but view of all but the last few metres of which is blocked from the main road by a tall building) having not bothered to slow down or even acknowledge that there was a junction. I narrowly avoided clipping his back tyre, and his fellow cyclist (who was equally ignoring the rules of the road) had to slam his brakes on to avoid going in to the side of my car.

Of course, the "only healthy people should be allowed to get from A to B, either by foot or bicycle" types, would somehow make it MY fault had both these cyclists died! Wish I'd caught it on camera, I'd send it to the Police so they could have a serious word with the morons.

Nyer miss, eh!

And what a good illustration as to why the speed limits make sense.

Si

No it isn't. Whatever speed I had been doing they could have been killed by just pulling out in front of me. And THEY would most definitely have been to blame. Jersey has many junctions where, even if you obey the signs and actually give way, it isn't easy for people on the adjoining road to see you.

You must be one of those that won't be happy till we all go around on segways, or are those TOO fast?

You cannot alter the speed limit just because some pedestrians/cyclists are determined to get themself killed no matter what. That is their problem and their behaviour needs to be tackled formally.

Nearly hit the nail on the head

Many of us would be happy if everyone drove within the posted limits, as you were doing.

No need for segway speeds, just an end to people constantly trying to justify their addiction to speeding under the pretext of knowing better and being more skilled than those who respect the limits.

It's a shame you didn't hit the submit button after the first paragraph, it was good up to there. The second para was just unnecessary conjecture and the third doesn't stand up to logic. It is precisely because of the existence of hazards, curable or not, that limits have to relate to risks, such as the ones you list in your first paragraph.

NFI

What I would like to see is the number of serious injuries caused by being within the speed limit as opposed to those cause by being over the speed limit before anything is approved. I think most of the road deaths in the last few years have been cause by people being over the speed limit for the road they were on, not anything to do with the limit being too high. Think I might have to buy a peddle car for work if they become any lower.

Si

Facts will just get in the way of the anti-motorist brigade's crusade!

It's weird that they are so bolshy against all law-abiding motorists yet, to date, I have not seen one of them advocate for the permanent removal of driving licences from people found guilty of careless driving. To me it is obvious that driving is NOT a right, it is a privilege and if you abuse it you should lose the opportunity to do it, and permanently.

I wonder why they don't support the permanent removal of a licence from a dangerous driver? Maybe they drive recklessly themselves but only ever it at 15mph?

kermit

I ll copy that NFI. If you see the state of the Lotus or the Porsche last week it s clear that they blew the speed limit before they passed the 2nd gear.

I also found it weird not to find a fixed speed camera in the sensible spots around the Island.

Observer

There is no serious speeding issue apart from Kevin Lewis attempting to win friends for re-election purposes.

I dont speed, I dont see excessive speed on a regular basis, I dont get overtaken by speedsters and am having to keep my 4 x 4 due to our cart track roads which are more of an accident liabilty than the odd 5mph driven over the limit.

I do see accidents caused by carelessness, often at low speeds and in queues of traffic. Having a snail speed limit in the villages wont stop this type of accident.

I suggest Kevin Lewis does what I pay him for - keeping the traffic moving -and stops touting for political miles from self interested parties!

the thin wallet

so its beat the motorist yet again.

the easy target.

yet still our demi gods cannot control job creation or immigration.

and the speeding will continue .

ron

Statistics from smiley face cameras show virtually no variance between covert or overt operation, and both show that speed in not an issue. What is an issue is the spikes in the data caused by speeding way in excess of the limit, for which changing speed limits will have no effect

Steve

A man with a red flag next I suppose, I now spend more time looking for speed changes than I do looking at the road only a matter of time till a death happens due to a driver being distracted by all the different limits. 20 outside schools 40 for the rest modern cars do not need to be driven so slowly braking and all-round safety so much better than the old bangers we had 30 years ago.

But then who am I to know I only have to drive on the totally messed up system we have now.

PJG

How about 20mph inside the StHelier ring road and allow seat belts and crash helmets NOT to be worn?

It might even be safe to use a phone as well at that speed, but not sure, maybe that needs some scrutinisation ?

It would do away with the blind spots created by the tunnel vision crash helmets being used nowadays, and at 20 mph what's the chance of a head on crash?

It would create a safer environment for pedestrians

And

How often does the traffic go more than 20 anyway?

kermit

Speed limits in Jersey are really frustrating in some places. I would normally disagree, but La Petite route des Mielles is basically a housing estate with houses on every sides. It would make more sens to have a 20mph limit there rather than in the middle of nowhere like in St Marie where you have a wall on one side and a field on the other.

The Thinker

Always a subject to raise a good debate. To my knowledge there have been a number of different approaches over the years to speed limits within the Island - non of which have really worked and successive working groups have failed to come up with a sensible, workable strategy for the whole Island.

However I believe that many comments above are worthy of consideration.

First and foremost 'speed' is usually just one of a number of factors in relation to the cause of many collisions, it is very rarely the principle cause. Secondly, whatever speed limits are imposed there will always be a certain percentage of drivers who ignore them in the same way as they ignore other legislation and as such there will never be a 'perfect' speed limit for any stretch of road.

So my views on the way forward:

1. There ought to be a common sense approach across the entire Island so that similar roads have similar limits - unlike the 'endless' 20 mph on a back road in St. Mary.

2. By and large I would advocate main roads at 35 (exception being the Avenue) and all minor roads 25 mph.

3. Use of randomly placed speed cameras set for prosecution 5 mph over limit.

4. Penalty points system similar to UK.

5. The Police be asked to take a more robust approach to collision investigation and traffic offences in order to prosecute more people who drive without due care and attention. (Currently the Police frequently determine that the insurance companies can sort it out - whereas in the past where certain collisions occurred such as rear end shunts the Police used to prosecute the driver who was clearly at fault for driving without due care and attention).

5. Courts to review speeding fines. NB The UK uses a fining system which is proportional to an individual's wealth / income. So your flash sports car driver could get handed a £ 3000 fine !

6. Adopt another practice used in the UK whereby the 'offender' has a choice between the 3 penalty points on their licence or attending an educational course to learn why speed can be such a killer in certain circumstances and other important driving skills and facts.

However knowing this Island and the 'powers that be' all of that might end up in the 'just too difficult box' and they will reduce the speed limits as a quick fix and crashes will increase as people try to overtake where there simply isn't the time of space to do so.