Call to micro-chip all dogs in Jersey

ALL dogs in Jersey should be micro-chipped in line with proposals to change UK legislation, according to Senator Sarah Ferguson.

A Jack Russell terrier is scanned for a microchip at a Blue Cross  rehoming centre in the UK
A Jack Russell terrier is scanned for a microchip at a Blue Cross rehoming centre in the UK

ALL dogs in Jersey should be micro-chipped in line with proposals to change UK legislation, according to Senator Sarah Ferguson.

She wants the Dogs (Jersey) Law 1961 to be updated to follow the UK, which has recently proposed compulsory micro-chipping of all dogs by January 2016. Failure to do this would constitute a criminal offence.

Senator Ferguson said that the scheme would stop parishes spending money on trying to find stray dogs.

Comments for: "Call to micro-chip all dogs in Jersey"

Simple Sid

I will not be subjecting my dog to the risk of developing a tumour of having a foreign body placed under his skin, I old also like to know how the Senator expects to find a chipped dog it is not GPS based???

James Wiley

Well it is better to have them tested on dogs first so they know what might happen when they force humans to be micro-chipped.

Dog owner

I have a micro chipped dog, but I do not understand why stray animals cost the States money to find? Sorry, but if your dog goes astray then that is just bad luck. Look after them properly and keep them secure and certainly don't expect the States to pay to find them!

Blue Knight

Who is going to police this wondrous plan? Do dogs cause so many problems in Jersey, that the authorities have to go to the expense of doing this. I think not.

Surely it would be better to improve public services, health care and more importantly the ailing economy. Got any plans for that Senator? No; I thought not. :-)

the thin wallet

why not. it will make the check of having a licence easier.

the amount of just abandoned dog dirt in and around clearveiw street and dorset street plus albert stret and any connecting road is disgracefull.

this must be the worst area of fouled streets.

unless others know of more .

the owners do this every other day as it always in the same area .

i am not saying all owners, and its those who do not pick up who give those who do a bad name .

Blue Knight

Micro-chips in dogs is unlikely to help detect dog fouling incidents. To do this you need some official to be at the exact location and exact time a dog fouls - how often does that happen?

By the way you need some States Department with a willingness to deal with the issue of dog fouling - there has been no sign of that.

In addition you still need a dog warden or someone to check the dog with a scanner to read the skip, to check against the list of dog licences - an administrative nightmare. More bureaucracy, costing more money that the island can ill afford.

Blue Knight

For skip read chip :-)

Crazy Diamond

Not just your area.... But this area too......Rue des Pres. Perhapes the Parish of St Saviour could check their dog license records and see if a new 'big dog' has moved into the area because same place all the time... Big lumps of dog poo..... Not bits from a little dog.

Disgusting....... Especially if you get it on your shoe.

the thin wallet

i have and wear saftey boots with grippy soles , all up the ladder too.

dont worry i have no qualms about picking it up and throwing it at the offender .

should i see them .

plastic gloves take up no room in the pocket.

Sensible

Same where I live in St Saviour too, just letting their dogs foul the pavement is a disgrace. I dont blame the dogs at all, but the owners should have them taken away if the persist. I have shouted at one guy to pick up his dogs mess, thankfully he did otherwise it could have gotten out of hand. Next time, i plan to simply follow them home and deposit said mess on their own doorstep.

As for tagging dogs...doubt that the states spend enough dealing with strays to justify it. And lets be honest, the people whom care about their dogs will and do make a massive effort to find them if they go missing. Those who just abandon them will not get a chip anyway.

meyerlandesman

Sorry but i can't understand how will a micro-chip will make an owner pick up after their dog if they don't normally bother to follow the law anyway.

Your suggestion that" it will make the check of having a licence easier" doesn't really make sense.

Surely if a dog owner just walks away after their dog has fouled the street it would be easier to ask the owner (who is the offender, by not cleaning up after their pet) for their details than to rush up to the dog and scan it?

Flymo

BK, think of all those lovely fines that they can raise ..

Slasher

Go one step further. Do as they do on the isle of Capri, DNA test all dogs and have them registered, when they foul the pavement, park or beach fine the owner. Better still have them put down( and give the dog to someone responsible!).

the thin wallet

wow now your talking .

i have never been to capri , but believe that it a nice place .

Great Idea

Slasher, this is a great idea!

myview

Slavishly following the UK again. It would be far better to microchip all cats - I could then find the people responsible for allowing their cats to foul my garden & worry my birds.

Thick or what!

Are you for real? How is a cat owner supposed to tell his cat not to foul someone's garden or bother the birds, the thing they do naturally anyhow? You sound like my daft neighbours!!

Cat hater

So it's ok for your cat to come and sh*t in my garden?

Sh*tting comes naturally to me too, so I can come and sh*t in your garden then?

That is your logic.

I wonder who is actually thick?

The trouble these days is people who live in tiny houses/Flats with no gardens or decked and slabbed gardens etc think it's ok to get cats. They don't actually care that the cat will need to go somewhere to do its business.

So every day I clean up after your pet.

Why should I?

Tagging dogs? not sure, what they should do is put more cameras up as there is so much dog mess around. I know people say "It's the minority who let their dog mess and don't pick it up"

No from what I have seen, there is sh*t everywhere when I am walking around the Island.

You only need to go up to Grantez Dolmen to see the National Trust have banned dogs from the area due to people not picking up after their pets and being unable to control them from worrying the sheep up there.

So maybe it is worth tagging??

Steve

That's all well and good, but how are you (a human) going to tell a cat not to sh*t in someone's garden?

Thick or what has a good point lol

Parktown Prawn

Cat Hater

"They don’t actually care that the cat will need to go somewhere to do its business."

Man invented cat litter trays for this purpose.....perhaps you should take your "hating" out on the owners instead of the poor little mites who are only trying to do what every other living creature needs to do!!

Cat hater

PP, I totally agree.

Perhaps you could educate the 1000's of cat owners who obviously have no idea.

Did you even read my post?

You and Steve seem to have missed my point totally.

People do not take responsibility for their own actions, ie buying a cat when you live in a flat or a hard landscaped gardened property. They need to provide and area with loose soil/chipping etc for the cat to do what comes naturally.

Around my way I see a large population of cats and 90% of gardens are hard landscaped.

How many people who you know PP who have houses and gardens, actually have a litter tray?

The ones I know don't care about where the cat goes, they certainly don't have litter trays.

So your point isn't really valid is it?

As long as the cat sh*ts elsewhere the owner conveniently puts this out of their mind.

My next task is a webcam and then ID the cat and every day I will place its doings on the owners doorstep.

£10 they will not have a little tray PP, what say you?

Pussy Galore

I told my neighbour that if they do not stop their vermin cat crapping in my flower beds I would launch my dogs crap over the fence into their garden as a fair exchange.

Miraculously I have had no problems since.

I have never owned such vermin and so I do not know what a vermin owner can teach the animal. Somehow though it seems very possible to control where your vermin craps.

Parktown Prawn

Cat Hater

Why should I? I'm not responsible for everybody else!

What point was that you made then....apart from you pointing the finger at the animal instead of the irresponsible owner. Your user name said all I needed to know about your stance!

I notice you don't complain about birds or other wildlife that messes in your garden, just cats.....why is that?

Pussy

You can't be much of an animal lover if you refer to cats as "vermin".....although that is perhaps an appropriate name for someone like yourself.

I'd seriously question whether you can really care for dogs or any other animals responsibly with an attitude like that.

Cat hater

Because the bird mess dissolves mostly into the ground.

Also they are not errant pets flying around which their owners couldnt give 2 figs about where they sh*t.

If it was flocks of parrots sh*tting in my garden and over my car etc which people owned, then yes it would annoy me.

You have lost this one PP.

My user name is a bit tongue in cheek, but this matter of clearing up other peoples pets sh*t because of their failure to provide suitable facilities on their own property is pretty annoying.

To say "I can't tell my cat not to do it" is utter cr*p.

Provide the correct environment on your own property for YOUR pet and bingo problem pretty much solved.

Parktown Prawn

Cat Hater

You have absolutely no logic!!

If the animals were free then you wouldn't mind them messing your car/garden, but if they were owned then you have a problem with it!

Sheesh.....there are some strange people in this world.

"To say “I can’t tell my cat not to do it” is utter cr*p."

You are either thicker than I gave you credit for or you are the world's first and only "cat whisperer" ;-)

I don't know why I have "lost this one"....was it a battle?

My wife and I raise cats. I would say "own" but that is not true.....the cats own us really.

However, due to the ignorance and callous behaviour of people with attitudes like you and Pussy Galore, I have had to keep them imprisoned indoors for their own safety. There are scumbags out there who would not think twice about poisoning an animal if it so much as looked at them the wrong way! Sad, pathetic people.

When someone cares more about their material posessions and stupid little garden plots more than a creatures life......well....then that is when I begin to despise that person myself.

You have a garden....a cat may mess in it now and again....get over it!

puffin

Cat hater you are seriously scaring me with this venom you are spouting. As a cat owner I have a nice garden with flower beds, but do my cats sh*t in it, NO! They go far further afield to do their business, and how the hell do I control that?

You cannot win this arguement with your stupid comments, may I suggest you go and live in a nice Dandara flat which would remove the problem for you.

Sickened

Some of these comments make me very sad. I have a dog (which I ALWAYS pick up after) and three cats (which I cant!) I do have a litter tray and plenty of places in the garden for them to go but I cannot guarantee that they always use what I provide. All of mine are chipped. I sadly los one cat two years ago, she was only 4 months old and she was beaten by some sick person who lived nearby. We have also had other cats beaten near us until I called the police and put notes around all the houses to say that animal cruelty had been reported. The incidents suddenly stopped!!! Anyone with the ability to cause harm to a living creature, whether they have cr@!!ed in your garden or not, needs therapy in my book!! Having said that - some owners are just as bad and need to be much more responsible and considerate to non animal loving people ! :)

truthseeker

fear not,as with Ozoufs policies ...you'll soon be eating them,end of problem.

Andy

All depends if the owner is responsible or not...I know someone who's dog is usually roaming around loose so in that case microchip them!

fed up

Senator Ferguson clearly has no idea what goes on.

The Parishes charge for stray dogs not the States.

God's Mentor

To the irresponsible person or people who allow their dogs to foul the promenade in Gorey - know this. If I catch your dog fouling I will personally ensure that you are prosecuted. That is a promise.

Simple Sid

Chipping a dog has nothing to do with unresponsible owners letting their dog poo everywhere. The Senator should be looking at fining the owners if they do not pick there poo up.

I am suprised the Senator has time for this really unimportant subject when the Health Service is falling apart, unemployment is at a all time high, and retailers are struggling but that's Jersey politicans all over let's get out prioritys right.

G&T

We all know that the human population has significantly increased over the years but are there any statistics showing the increase in the dog population.

Last summer what ever chance our family did get to have a beach BBQ in the evening was completely spoilt by large numbers of dogs roaming free and kicking sand all over food and people.

Perhaps it is time to limit which beaches dogs are actually allowed on so those of us who do not like man's best friend can actually enjoy a summers evening on the beach without constantly having to shoo an unwanted visitor away.

There are enough beaches in Jersey to accommodate everyone.

Parktown Prawn

G&T

You can say exactly the same thing about the large number of kids roaming free and spoiling things for other people.

I hope you know where your kids are at night ;-)

A dog owner

Before you ask - yes I own dogs - and yes I always pick up their poo. where does it say the beaches are for human use before dog and horse use ?? my dogs use the beaches most days of most months of the year - then you come along with your G@T , screaming kids and disposable BBQ which you probably leave on the beach once you depart from your yearly visit and expect us dog owners to not be around ! well it's not going to happen. if you own dogs which are obedient which mine are then there is no reason why we can't all use the space at the same time. so before you kick off next time you decide to BBQ down on the beach please consider that we use it all the time and have as much right to be there as you. thanks

D De Jersey

Dogs are already banned from being off the lead in the summer. You are talking rubbish.

D De Jersey

On the beach I mean.

A dog owner

Yea on a lead between certain hours - they can still go on the beach anytime of the day !! So evenings is their time to run around yippee !!

crazy

it starts with dogs and slowly progress to humans.RFID ,contains 16 digits.my ID contains 13 digits ,to complete the 16 ,ill have to say yes to 666.

Simple Sid

Crazy your right it won't be long before we are all chipped.

Ashleyy

Say what!? How will it help find stray dogs? What movies have they been watching? Surely they mean it'll help stray dogs be identified?

What stray dogs are these anyway? You lose your dog in Jersey and it'll get back to you with minimal effort expelled by everyone involved. There's NO WAY that money can be saved by chipping every dog, buying the microchip scanners for every parish, training everyone and maintaining all that.

You lose your dog, you call the parish/police - someone finds a dog they call the parish/police - the dog gets reunited with owner.

Wrecker

Why are dogs more of an emotive issue than children in Jersey? A dog jumped on my nieces face last summer when I pulled it off her - the owner starting screaming at me. Just one bite and she would have been scarred for life. That lovely old magistrate having threatening letters sent to his home (Peter Harris), when he requires a dog to be put down for destroying a child's life. Sick island - sick people who put dogs before the helpless people in our society.

Ashley

Well if a dog jumps up at a kid, it's being friendly. If you pull it off, you're being aggressive. I would have told you to calm down too.

The parents of the kid who was bitten by that dog didn't agree that it should be put down. Who are you to decide if it should live or die?

Destroying a life? What planet are you on?

Ashleys Dog

If a dog jumps up at a kid, it’s a badly trained dog, and the owner should be put down.

And so should you for thinking it’s acceptable to allow this behaviour.

Would you allow a complete stranger to run up to you and leap on you? No, you would call it assault or even rape, and you would certainly fight back. At no point would you think "this person is just being friendly"

Yet you think its fine for a badly trained animal to do it to someone else?

What planet are *you* on?

Gin & Tonic

I just don't like other people's dogs and I don't want to be friendly with them. Why do other people always think that you want to tolerate their dogs or children? I just wish that they would go away.

Mrs B

"it's being friendly" - have you no idea how frightening this behaviour is? The same goes for dogs mounting your leg or sniffing your crouch. Totally unacceptable. Keep your dog under control or on a lead if you can't.

Thoughtless owners and poorly trained dogs.

Ella

If a dog jumps at any stranger (nevermind just kids) then the owner deserves whatever happens next!

I don't care for people who claim their dog is just "being friendly", if I don't even know the person why should I trust what they say about their dog?

A responsible dog owner will train their dog and ensure it doesn't go too near to strangers.

roombay42

Owners of dogs just want a creature to control. No normal person needs a dog to soothe their egos.

Ashley

You're right - some people just have internet forums to be pompous on, instead.

Overpopulated

I think all dogs (and cats) should be micro chipped. They are then identifiable.

I don't think cats should be allowed out at all they do huge damage to wildlife.

If cats are microchipped they can be identified when run over because the owners let them out at night.

I also think the dog licence should be enforced more rigidly - linked to microchipping and be more expensive. The Animal shelter is now filled with dogs, the result of over breeding to make money

Parktown Prawn

Overpopulated.....come on now, be serious please.

"I don’t think cats should be allowed out at all they do huge damage to wildlife."

With that logic, no human being should be allowed out either.....we are the worst culprits for "damaging wildlife"!

Cats do what is natural to them, they hunt.....usually for food.

Mankind does what's natural to them......they destroy for no other purpose than fear, greed or gain.

Wildlife is being far more damaged by man building on their natural habitats than a few moggies catching birds and mice.....not to mention the vermin that cats are very useful at catching to keep numbers down.....please keep it in perspective here!

I don't appreciate the way you feel cats should be microchipped because "can be identified when run over because the owners let them out at night".

Personally, I believe if an animal is run over then the road user should be prosecuted in the same way they would if a child was run over!

The reason is usually speeding or dangerous dricing in most cases anyway!

Parktown Prawn

Overpopulated

....sorry, forgot to mention....

I agree with the licence though, but for ALL animals. People who want to own animals must prove they are financiallly and mentally able to look after them properly.

Perhaps we should introduce licences for people who want to become parents too.....that may solve a host of problems!

Dave C

Prawn,

In response to your intemperate rant towards me:

Women and children would normally come into contact with cat faeces in the garden whist gardening or playing.

I didn't say that 'many' came into contact with cat faeces. Unfortunately, the consequences for a small number that do can be horrendous - Blindness, miscarriage, death etc.

As I suggested, owners can ensure that they provide a litter tray at home and encourage the cats to use it. Not everyone does.

We thought that your idea of prosecuting drivers for running over cats was ridiculous as we could not see how it would be possible to enforce any legislation. Also, why would this idea apply to just dogs and cats? What about birds, squirrels, rabbits etc.

What evidence do you have that most cats are run over because the driver was speeding or careless.

I do know what it costs to look after animals as I used to have cats as pets. One of them 'Sooty' was run over by a potato delivery van.

At no stage did I suggest that cats should be culled or harmed in any way. Neither did I suggest that people should be prevented from having them.

It's not for me to judge whether I am selfish or heartless but I can evidence my caring nature towards cats by stating that I used to foster terminally ill kittens for the Cat Protection League.

Overall your comments were illogical, ill-conceived and extremely rude. This is your opportunity to retract.

Parktown Prawn

Dave C

That is true, but women and children will also come into contact with many other unsavoury germs/bacteria if working or playing in the garden.....I perceived you to be placing sole blame on cats in your comments.

There is an animal welfare law in Jersey and it wouldn't surprise me if you could technically sue for damage to "property"........if people can sue each other for hurtful comments then I do not think this would be too troublesome.

You appear to think ideas are ridiculous because they would be difficult to enforce.......a lot of these silly laws we have cannot actually be enforced, but we still have them!

Murder is illegal, but this cannot be enforced......people still commit it!

However, there are deterrants and punishments for committing this act!

I would like animals to have some legal protection. It should not be ok to run over an animal and think it doesn't matter because it DOES matter to someone!

In light of your assertion that you once cared for vulnerable animals I do apologise for my rant and applaud your kind heart. I wish more people would take a leaf out of your book in that respect.

I must admit I see red when I hear or see people abuse animals in any way because they have no voice of their own and I let my emotions get the better of me. Again, I apologise.

Parktown Prawn

BTW Dave, I was being sarcastic with my comment about culling cats.

Dave C

Dear Prawn,

The RSPB suggest that their is little evidence that great damage is done to bird populations due to the fact that cats prey on birds that are already sick and dying, that would not make it through the next breeding season anyway.

It would seem apparent from available research that the biggest danger caused by cats is the disease that is spread through their faeces.

Children and pregnant women are in the greatest danger. There are regularly birth defects and miscarriages in the U.K. due to women coming into contact with cat faeces. Obviously, this can happen, even if the person impacted does not own a cat.

I do not own a cat but several of them do use my veg patch and the rest of my garden for their convenience. I wish that their owners could try harder to prevent this.

I would encourage all cat owners to provide facilities on their own premises for their cats.

Your comment about prosecuting drivers for running over cats is ridiculous but we have had a good laugh about it in the office.

Parktown Prawn

Dear Dave C

Disease can be spread by faeces??

Who'd have thought that?

And there was me thinking it was perfectly safe to play with any kind of faeces......!

I would like to know what these women you talk of are doing with the cat faeces...especially as there are apparently so many who come into contact with it according to you.

Maybe the next government health warning should highlight this apparent danger so we can all start culling the feline population to save the human race from extinction!

How do you suppose an owner would "try harder to prevent" a cat visiting your veg patch?

A quiet word in its ear perhaps?

"Your comment about prosecuting drivers for running over cats is ridiculous but we have had a good laugh about it in the office."

Why is that ridiculous?

Do you even know how much it costs to raise an animal and how much it costs in vets bills to cover injury?

Normally cats are run over because the driver was speeding or careless....and you do not think this is grounds for prosecution?

Obviously you are a heartless and selfish person and have no idea of the companionship these and other animals provide some worthy people.

I say worthy because an animal is a great judge of character and if they do not like you then there is usually a perfectly good reason.

You are clearly one of those selfish people who have no consideration for other livig things.

IMO, a life is a life, and we have absolutely NO RIGHT to decide what creatures deserve to live and which ones should die!

****!

twob

Agree with youparktown with a cats qualities of cleanliness dignity courage and affection how many of us could be cats!

jsybean

can I just say that if EVERYONE micro chipped their animal cat or dog it would make life a lot easier to re home said animal IF they stray also if they are just "let out" at least some one would then be traced as the owner ALSO whilst on this subject which seems to have digressed PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CAN ALL CATS BE NEUTERED/SPAYED not only is it better for the animal but also for the "bird/wildlife" population as then we would not have a problem with people having kittens who then get pregnant and are dumped with kittens and left to have them in the wild and fend for themselves !!!

hence the Feral cat population !!!

People should think about the welfare of their animals and all kittens should be chipped at first lot of vaccinations ! IMHO that is as I have seen 1st hand how the poor female cats end up having brought a litter of kittens up and how bad the males look after the many fights for territory :( most certainly not good.

wobbly

Over the past 25yrs I have had 4 dogs, all of whom have been micro-chipped. I have thought that this is of no use whatsoever. If they are lost they have a tag on their collar.

DNA is the way to go, which ultimately identifies the owner.

Poo goes to lab, owner fined fixed penalty say £100.

Job done LOL

Haram

As a muslim, dogs are considered by my culture to be unclean. I think that many of the posters here express similar attitudes to me in regards to the cleanliness of these animals.

I, for one, would be in favour of seeing it being illegal to own dogs as pets and do not think that microchipping goes far enough

Parktown Prawn

Well, thankfully we are not all neanderthal in our thinking like you.....some of us are educated!

Haram

Dear Parktown Prawn,

It is you who are uneducated. The Neanderthals pre-date the birth of Islam and were generally located in Eurasia. Given Islam's roots, there is no connection between 'Neanderthal thinking' and our religion.

Like so many, I would doubt that you have taken the time to read the Qur'an. I would suggest you do so, as without this knowledge your arguments against me fall flat on their face. Go in peace.

Parktown Prawn

Haram

Why do YOu make this about religion......did I even mention your religion?

I couldn't care less what book you choose to believe in and I have no intention to. I prefer factual reading.

Your "neanderthal thinking" refers to your comment "similar attitudes to me in regards to the cleanliness of these animals."

You think animals are "unclean"?

Well, let me tell you.... animals are more clean of soul and spirit than most humans. They do not judge!!

NB

I think it's safe to say he was likening your culture to the outdated, dare i say unintelligent thinking of the Neanderthals rather than implying a genetic heritage, of course you knew that anyway.

Personally i would be in favour of making the subjugation of women illegal but i chose to live in a secular, free thinking western culture where we are free to choose what we beleive, what we eat and within reason what we do (including owning a pet). I wouldn't dream of trying to suggest that an Islamic nation adopt such things, but then i have made the choice not to live one.

Haram

My brother,

It is clear that my thinking is inextricably linked to my faith - your criticism of my 'neanderthal thinking' is therefore clearly a slur against my persuasions.

I do not think all animals unclean, only that the animals we are discussing at the moment (dogs) are. This is clear from my initial comment.

I am not judging whatsoever - merely expressing an opinion that a) Dogs are unclean and b) I would prefer to see the keeping of dogs legislated against. I accept that this is not common thinking, but in the spirit of tolerance I believe I should be able to espouse my opinions without attack.

Haram

NB - I also choose to live in a secular, free thinking western culture, hence why I freely exercise my right to believe and behave as I choose, so long as it does not impose on the laws of the country I find myself in. You would be, in my eyes, welcome to live in an Islamic nation and use your democratic right to make suggestions to change the law - this is democracy in action, as you know. Whether or not this would be looked favourably upon I cannot know, as I am not responsible for the actions of others - but in the tradition of Voltaire I would defend your right to do so, just as I defend your right to critique me and am happy to debate this with you.

I assume that your implicit accusation of Islam subjugating women is based upon ill-informed judgements about things such as the Niqab, which is to my mind, and the minds of many Islamic scholars a cultural introduction of Persian origins and not one of Islam.

I assume that both you and Parktown Prawn are not men of God and I accept that, but I will pray for you because I preach peace, love and tolerance of all men.

Parktown Prawn

Haram

"It is clear that my thinking is inextricably linked to my faith "

Is it really? Your thinking is linked to a 1400 year old faith?

I do apologise. I was under the impression you could think for yourself.

Please explain why dogs are considered unclean to you and others are not.....you have intrigued me.

You would do well to realise how important a role these particular animals (sorry, dogs) play in our lives...and perhaps show them a little more respect!

Haram

Dear Parktown Prawn,

In thinking for myself I have chosen to follow Islam - nobody has forced me to. Why do you hate me so much for exercising my free will? I am not forcing you to change your ways.

Why should I pay a dog respect? He shows me no respect when he defecates on the pavement.

The arguments for dogs being unclean under Islam is widely documented. You are clearly able to use google (as you have successfully learned the approximate age of Islam) - why not research further? Why not exercise your freedom of mind, or are you waiting for me to tell you what to think?

Parktown Prawn

Haram

"but I will pray for you because I preach peace, love and tolerance of all men."

....but not for "God's" other creatures then????

Do you see why an increasing number of people look at religion with a measure of disdain these days?

The hypocrisy and contradiction is astounding!

Haram

Dear Parktown Prawn,

I love all of God's gifts, this does not prevent some of them from being unclean. There is even Quranic scripture which commends a prostitute for showing compassion to a dog which was thirsty. I do not see how I am being hypocritical.

I can understand why religion is on the wane - because people like you are so dogmatic in telling people that they do not have the freedom to pursue their own religious beliefs. In your eyes I am free to practice whatever you tell me to. The dogma in your belief is very much what you seek to criticise me for!

Parktown Prawn

Haram

"In thinking for myself I have chosen to follow Islam – nobody has forced me to"

Yes, that may be true, but now you are indoctrinated.....you are bound by your faith, therefore, you have no free thinking, right?

I don't hate you....I don't even know you, but I dislike your attitude towards dogs in particular.

If you had a rational mind you would realise that a dog defecating on a pavement (as you put it) is not disrespecting YOU.....it simply needs to do what is natural to all of us.....unfortunately mankind has yet to provide canine "public" toilets for this purpose.

Maybe you'll start to respect the dog when you need him most should you ever lose your sight, or lose your way in the wilderness, or need protection.......in fact, maybe we should just train dogs to treat the likes of you with the same contempt you show them. Simple!

If you paid any attention to what I have written you would know I clearly do not care for any faith or religion...although I usually respect others who have chosen this path....

"The arguments for dogs being unclean under Islam is widely documented"

So what? That does not make it true just because some centuries old faith says it so. Peoples minds and brains have generally grown over the years......they also used to think the world was flat and the sky would fall on their heads....do you still think that is true?

"Why not exercise your freedom of mind, or are you waiting for me to tell you what to think?"

You don't get it do you?

I AM already exercising my freedom....it is YOU who is bound not to have your own thoughts, restricted by your faith ;-)

All faith, in my opinion, is hypocritical.

Islam for instance says "The Qur'an strongly enjoins Muslims to treat animals with compassion and not to abuse them."....

....yet Halal...."Animal rights groups have objected to Halal, saying that it is a form of animal torture. The animal is positioned in order to have its blood completely drained (if size permits) and left to exsanguinate.

The ritual method of slaughter as practiced in Islam and Judaism has been described as inhumane by some animal welfare organizations in the U.K. and the U.S. who have stated that it "causes severe suffering to animals.".

"Animal abuse, cruelty, and/or neglect form part of the many social ills plaguing the Muslim community."

....need I say more?

Gold Chain

Really? I think keeping domesticated beasts is positively Stone Age. Back then though such beasts had a useful purpose so it was at least rational. Today they merely enable those chronically unable to gain adequate satisfaction from human relationships, rather than forcing them to confront their social deficiencies.

As for education I note that Haram manages the use of parenthetical commas whereas you seem utterly bemused by the ellipsis, electing to use 1.6666 of them. Read into that what you will.

PS

Just on a final minor point, Neanderthals may have practised religion but I doubt it would have been monotheistic and it certainly wouldn’t have been Muslim. Though you probably think that Neanderthals were Stone Age humans rather than the similar but extinct species they actually were. You had to check how to spell Neanderthal too didn’t you?

Parktown Prawn

Again.....you get the wrong end of the stick and start nit picking....what is wrong with you obstinate people????

Neanderthal was used to point out the thinking was "backdated".....if you gain pleasure in researching the factualities then it's your time your wasting....bravo to you the "big man"!

This was not about religion so stop using this as an excuse for someone's stupid comment.

Not everyone cares about religion!

I certainly DON'T!!

Parktown Prawn

Gold Chain

Since when do you have to be grammatically perfect to be considered "educated"?

Your arrogance does not make you clever.

....oh, and your suggestion " Today they merely enable those chronically unable to gain adequate satisfaction from human relationships, rather than forcing them to confront their social deficiencies." is clearly nonsense.

That is simply the opinion of a selfish person who probably couldn't even look after themselves let alone another living creature.....nothing more.

Gold Chain

Love how you decided to come back two attempts and especially that it took you 17 minutes to think up your next useless point. You must be foaming at the mouth!

You’re partly right on one point, nit picking is rather distasteful. However, sadly, I was forced to demonstrate your utter incompetence in order to discredit your poisonous reply to Harem. Harem was freely expressing his views without any malice but you chose to spit your prejudice and attack him for his religious beliefs.

You say you don’t care about religion and even capitalise the word ‘don’t’ yet the fact you chose to attack poor Harem would suggest you care about religion a great deal.

You’re also right that my arrogance doesn’t make me clever (that’ll be the combination of intellect and education) but the fact remains that I am clever. That’s why I understand that forcing a helpless beast to become utterly dependent on you (and perhaps even keeping him isolated from his own kind) so you have something to love you is pathetic and morally reprehensible.

The world would be a better place if animals were confined to nature. If you love them so much you could take a trip on a safari to visit them, or even move to live in the bush. Don’t come crying to me if they eat your foot though, will you?

Jub

Well luckily your 'opinions' or 'culture' are not the main over here.

I'm sure you would also like to see the introduction of Sharia Law, all meat to be Halal (torturous method of killing Animals), and the oppression of women which is so prevalent throughout your culture.

Haram

No, not really. I am happy to practice Sharia insofar as to the extent that it is within the law of the land. I think that there are some positive aspects of Sharia, notably Islamic finance (which if widely practiced would have meant that the global economic crisis wouldn't have happened) but again, I'm happy to live in a nation whereby this isn't the case.

Please provide evidence that ritual slaughter in the manner prescribed under Islam is 'Torturous'

As for the oppression of women, I really don't feel I need to respond to this. You haven't made an argument beyond 'YOUR CULTURE OPPRESSES WOMEN'. I could argue 'YOUR CULTURE EXPLOITS WOMEN' and we would be no closer to the truth.

I will pray for you.

Jub

Harem,

You only have to search on you tube for the video 'Meet your Meat, the Barbarity of Halal slaughter' to show how torturous this is.

The first part of the video shows a 'Western slaughter' done correctly, the second shows the Halal way. You don't have to be a genius to see which way looks the most brutal and distressing to the animal. Why this is acceptable in western countries I have no idea, I guess it's giving in to the politically correct world that we live in today. We can't tell a religion that their antiquated method of slaughtering animals is not acceptable in this day and age.

With regards to the oppression of women argument, I'm not going to bother trying to justify it, I think it's justifiable in its self when I see a woman in a Niqab on a hot summer's day walking down the street, or when you look at the fact that women in Saudi Arabia are not even allowed to drive and are required to have a 'Male guardian' from the age of 18.

Western Woman are exploited you say? I think not, the thing is, western Women have the choice to do as they please and choose their own way, unlike some of there Islamic counterparts.

Haram

Jub

One video a case does not make. Please provide some academic research, which has been subject to peer review.

There is nothing in Islam forcing a woman to wear the Niqab. This is a cultural adoption of Persian Islam. Again, there is a wealth of literature to support this.

Again, there is nothing in Islam that forbids a woman from driving (for obvious reasons) - just because a State interprets Islam wrongly this does not mean that Islam is wrong. I do not agree with this, neither do a significant portion of my Islamic brothers and sisters.

Western women are exploited, just look at the sheer volume of literature coming out in regards to the pornification of young western girls. It's quite outrageous - if you were to have a daughter would you wish her to be bombarded with the outlandish demands on how she should look and behave sexually?

Haram

By 'Persian Islam' I meant to write 'Persian Origin'

D De Jersey

Brilliant..

I'm glad the senator has raised this very important issue to solve a terrible societal blight that everybody is toiling over at the moment.... NOT.

I don't think I've ever seen a stray dog in Jersey, what about doing some work and reviewing the "dog act" that basically allows irresponsible dog owners to allow their dogs to roam and defecate with impunity.

The pope

How about a compulsary cull of all dogs? No more mess on the streets and no chance of being savaged !!

Jub

How about a compulsory cull of all Humans? No more mess on the streets and no chance of being Murdered/Raped/Mugged/Assaulted.