Work laws 'never used properly'

SERIOUS concerns have been raised that proposals to control immigration through work and housing controls do not go far enough to preserve the Island for local people.

Deputy Sean Power is leading a backbench panel reviewing the draft Control of Work and Housing Regulations
Deputy Sean Power is leading a backbench panel reviewing the draft Control of Work and Housing Regulations

SERIOUS concerns have been raised that proposals to control immigration through work and housing controls do not go far enough to preserve the Island for local people.

Deputy Sean Power is leading a backbench panel reviewing the draft Control of Work and Housing Regulations which were published on Friday and says that it would bring forward a series of ‘strong recommendations’ for amendments to be made to the proposals.

He said that his own view was that the existing law was adequate, but had not been properly enforced. He blamed those in charge during periods of relative boom for letting too many people enter the Island – many of whom were now entitled to, and claiming, benefits.

Comments for: "Work laws 'never used properly'"

TheMoaningOldBugger

For once this guy is right. If you look at the gov.je jobs, there are several positions advertised under warehouse and retail that DO NOT NEED 5 years. surely we should be filling all jobs with PLUS FIVE YEARS!!!!

Scrutineer

Perhaps they are only advertised open for under 5 years because there is a history of a lack of 'local people' being willing to do these jobs. This is the tricky issue; this 'expectations' issue of a divine right to a good job without having to work too hard has got to become a thing of the past. Until SS say to certain people 'you have got to do this job and work hard and, if you do not, you will not get benefits' it is just going to go on and on and on.

Jerry Gosselin

No, Scrutineer, you are completely wrong in suggesting that local people do not want to do retail work. In fact, this type of work used to be largely restricted to locals. The reason you no longer see as many locals working in retail is partly because thousands of immigrants have recently qualified through marriage to British citizens or 5 years residence, but also because stores like De Gruchys were granted extremely generous 3-year licences meaning that they do not have to bother employing many people with 5 years residence for the most basic sales assistant roles. Take a stroll through De Gruchys if you don't believe me!

vlad1m1r

Hello again Jerry,

I see you seem to have forgot my relating the lack of locals applying for work in the several Jersey hotels I worked in despite constant applications from people from other countries... :-)

V.

Andre

vlad1m1r,

Jerry is perfectly correct in regard to locals and the retail sector, and it's nice to see a reminder of that reality for once.

The hospitality industry is an entirely different issue. That sector has traditionally only been of interest to immigrant labour because of the relatively low wage and the seasonal and transient nature of the business.

To locals with families to support or high rents to pay, hotel work has never been a viable option career option.

For a "no-ties" immigrant happy to live in shared accomodation or take a relatively low wage in return for roof and board on-site, a temporary job in hospitality offers a good deal. Therein lies the huge difference.

Ken

Furthermore,Vlad's commentary contains no more than anecdotal account. He says that we "seem to have forgot" (sic) but whatever we have apparently forgotten is something which is unevidenced and which might be entirely untrue.

One thing is for sure; many menial jobs (van driving etc) which Jersey people used to do are now closed to our own because of "foreign foreman syndrome".

James

Ken, there may well be an element of "foreign foreman syndrome", or even "foreigh owner syndrome", but I wonder why so many of those in positions of hiring and firing in the services sector are not from these parts? Is it because they have worked their way up, starting with jobs that a generation of Jersey kids have not wanted to do? Are the locals geting their just desserts now that economic times are hard and the easier, better paid options have dried up?

Racial discrimination legislation is on its way, but I hope that employers will still be able to select the hardest workers, the grafters and the get on and do its. Wherever they are from if they are allowed to reside here.

Ken

I admire your faith in human nature and your kindly naivity, James. Unfortunately, those Jersey people who seek employement can't really afford the rose-tinted spectacles which your position of liberal comfort clearly affords.

Sue

James, yout post asks so many questions that it is clear that you don't know what you are talking about.

You also refer to "a generation" of Jersey people not wanting to do certain jobs. I can tell you from personal experience that you are talking out of your rear end on that one. I imagine that you have never done such work or known anyone who has, otherwise you surely would not have made the comment.

James Wiley

We need to bring an end to the discrimination against locals, all people should have to live here for 25 years before being entitled to benefits, just like the Jersey born.

Paul troalic

I wholeheartedly agree withis this! Jersey people are the ones who are discriminated against.

Henry

I fear there are a large number of Jersey-born girls who would not take kindly to your idea.

Especially those who got pregnant at 16, went straight from school into States housing and, moreover, have been receiving conspicuous sums of money from the public purse ever since...

the force of law

James Wiley - what are you talking about? Please explain what benefits non-locals get that locals don't?

Clanger

Sorry but the preservation of the island for 'local' people is an outmoded concept. Like it or not those born in Jersey are equalled by those not born here.

Add those who are Jersey born of immigrant parents and I would suggest that the 'local' as the word is intended is outnumbered and of a doomed dwindling identity.

As one of the majority I would like to reassure locals that I for one will not discriminate against them as a minority. I would like to work with this minority to make Jersey a great place to live for all of those currently resident.

What I think we will not suffer is the disenfranchisement of those who have qualified to vote and are entitled to benefits as the law stands at the moment.

I would suggest that this would be a clear breach of the ECHR which the Jersey Courts are legally bound to uphold.

Make of that what you will.

Crystal

nice to see Deputy Power worried about preserving the Island for local people. What are the immigration laws like in his native Ireland? and isn't he a little worried about playing the 'benefit scrounger' card? That could be seen as playing to the populist gallery and causing even more division in our already deeply racist little Island.

Lindsay Garrod

Praise the Lord ! Finally, a politician who has been honest enough to say what the public have known and said for years.

Nick

Work and housing controls are not the way, a proper immigration policy is what's needed, once you are allowed in to the island you should have the same rights as anyone else, not a second class citizen paying tax and social security but having to live in one room with a toaster and a kettle for £100 plus pounds a week for 10 years!

Overpopulated

You have the choice, don't come here - there are plenty of jobs in London

Clanger

Good point well made

Snick

Why do you come here if it is so awful!!?

KCSO

Exactly. Well said. I've read on here that a model of the Australian or Canadian visa systems could work but when you acquire those visas you have the same housing rights as everyone else!!! Jersey really needs to step out of the dark ages!!! Get with the times. The world is changing!

Jonno

Why come here if it is so bad!?

KCSO

Dont worry i dont have it bad!! my point is you cant treat people like second class citizens in this day and age!! Regardless of what geographical location it is!! no country in the world has such nonsense housing laws!

If alot of people on here had their way it would be like 1930`s America:

Immigrants can not sit in the same parts of restaurants as local people or the bus. Immigrants should have separate bathrooms, they can`t even walk in through the front door of a building. Immigrants are second class!

Dave

Quite so. But why come here if it is so awful?

KCSO

Re-read the comment!!!

Dave

But if the island is in the dark ages and so awful, why come here!?

Henry

@KCSO

The real problem is not the Housing Qualification System but the lack of a Housing Quality System.

Landlords are asking both locals and migrant workers ridiculous sums for sub-standard and, often, very dangerous dwellings.

What Jersey needs is a Housing Quality System which prevents profiteering individuals from charging top rents for the barely-adequate matchboxes they call "apartments".

jerseythepartiesover

I am a multi culturist and like the diversification we have in the British Isles.

To be fair though you cannot solely blame our politicians for the lack of immigration policy.

Tony Blair said that there would be no more than 30,000 Eastern Europeans when the borders were opened coming here I understand it is now over 3 million.

I do feel sorry for the very hard working Eastern Europeans who have come but they are let down by those and they are almost all females who are economic migrants who continue to produce children to get housing and welfare.

Dobson Norris

Multiculturalism is a very destructive and unpleasant concept. It has caused enormous damage to the United Kingdom. We most certainly do not want this social disease and its pious neo-missionaries here.

Jersey Eco Warrior

Totally agree Dobson Norris. There is multi-culturalism and Multi-Culturism.Engaging with other cultures can be enlightening. Being squeezed out of the possibility to work, ignored and bullied because you are a local is another. I have experienced all three.

Dobson Norris

Indeed. It has lain waste the UK and it seems that certain elements want to spread the blight here.

Jerry Gosselin

If he was that concerned about the new law, why was he amongst 46 States Members who voted IN FAVOUR of the principles of iton 5th July 2011? If one has FUNDAMENTAL CONCERNS about a draft law as important as this one, one must not hesitate to vote against it. Yet the record shows that on the day, only Deputies Southern and Trevor Pitman voted against the principles. There is no point trying to change the law on the eve of it coming into force almost two years later- there will be no proper debate on the regulations in March. It will all go through on the nod.

We know what Power's original concerns are because he lodged a proposition to the main amendment when it was debated in July 2011:

http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/AssemblyPropositions/2011/48931-3682-2162011.pdf

As you can see, his proposed amendments were extremely minor and mainly revolved around wanting the Minister for Housing to be responsible for the new law instead of the Chief Minister. He lost that argument 17-30 and withdrew the rest of his proposed amendments without even allowing them to be put to a vote. That just about sums up his pathetic contribution to the 2011 debate.

Geeky Blogger

Deputy Sean Power hits the nail on the head again.

But what can be done to reverse the situation? People will stay here on benefits if there is nothing to go home to, just ask them.

Rentokil

I would but half of them still refuse to integrate, still have a sense of entitlement and still refuse to learn basic economics! Still get away with god knows what and have the cheek to undermine disadvantaged LOCALS.

Bored of the half baked sob stories and bored of watching this Island turn to crap on a mass scale.. We then have prioritisation because of someone's language aswell it's pathetic. If you're not essentially skilled and have no intention of making this Island better, never mind your lives then piss off!

Mass unemployment, homelessness, hospitals in urgent beed of repair schools at breaking point and the social problems with this influx, local taxpayers FED UP of carrying opportunistic pisstakers!

why

agreed why are moat people in most garages and shops non locals we could be giving the jobs to the local unemployed. If u want to come and live on the island or work part of the year and go back home then surely u should have more skills to offer than using a till or stacking shelfs crazy

Dave C

Rentokil,

If it had not been for the line 'have the cheek to undermine disadvantaged LOCALS' I would not have known whether or not you were talking about immigrants as all that you have said could also be applied to some Locals.

So, if you are Local, not essentially skilled and have no intention of making this Island better then, as you have said, you know what you can do, what the mode of transport is and where you can board it.

Rentokil

Quite happy to stay and fight for what's right thanks! Ha ha

Rentokil

Eediot!

You obviously are ok with the fact a lot of Islanders get slated for being workshy and lazy by cultures who treat their own disadvantaged etc like dirt? Er ok then., Next! Lol

Sandy

That is the problem. We have now reached the stage where immigrants are telling Jersey people to leave their own island. We should be legislating against guests to the island behaving like this.

Overpopulated

Sorry, how do most of our immigrants 'make the island better'?

Drive around our congested roads with rubbish strewn everywhere - was not like this 10 years ago

Dave C

Sandy,

How do you know that I am an immigrant? More assumption!

Dave C

Overpopulated,

In response to my post you wrote 'Sorry, how do most of our immigrants ‘make the island better’?'

Well, I didn't say that. If you are going to debate with someone at least argue against what they have said, rather than against something that you pretend or imagine they have said.

Sandy

Perhaps you would ;ike to tell us, Dave C. Don't be shy, now! :)

Dave C

Hi Sandy,

Yes, I am an immigrant. I've been in Jersey for about 20 years. I appreciate the smiley by the way.

Obviously, I was not 'telling' anyone to leave although I was suggesting that if anyone feels that it is appropriate to state that it might be better for Jersey, if immigrants who choose not to contribute Jersey's wellbeing leave the island, it might also be appropriate to apply the same logic to those born locally. If you are able to contribute, but instead, choose to be a burden on the Island, then I don't see that it matters where you come from.

Cheers

Sandy

Well, my insight (assumption) proved to be correct!

I have found, in the nicest possible way, that many english incomers stand out a mile by their attitudes and mannerisms. Your comment provided a clue in that respect, hence the assumption.

Best wishes!

David Thomas

Quite agree with Geejy Blogger !! The states need the courage to cut benefits and make it more worth while to work, as a non qualified worker I run a business and its scary of how many non Jersey born people refuse to work as they can earn up to £290 a week in benefits. I have offered several people job oppotunities to be laughed at, as they would rather claim

Dave

I am sure that he felt differently upon his arrival to the Island in the 1980's

Stan

I feel strange agreeing with Sean Power. It may be that he has only said something that almost everyone knows already. That we don't need more laws, just existing laws enforced (or scrapped).

Is he a genius? Or just normal compares to other politicians?

Fed up too

Nick, I totally agree. If we paid less tax etc, then maybe treat us differently, but when it comes to social and tax coming off our wages, they are quick to grab. Why do these locals think they are above everyone else and have 'special' rights. I hope they get treated like dogs in whatever country they decide to settle in.

Paul troalic

This is an absurd comment. Most Jersey people don't have any rights to work in other EU countries and they certainly wouldn't expect any help if anything went wrong. You still see non-locals getting treated at A&E at the hospital cos it costs nothing instead of going to a GP. Get real mate!

observer

I'm a 4th generation local with a local name and feel a stranger in my own island.

This island has always assimilated incomers who integrated with those already here but now we have 'communities' who wont and who often return 'home' once they have filled their pockets.

My definition of a local is someone who has been here for the long term and calls Jersey home. Its an earned or inherited status - Sean Power has it- and I see nothing wrong or racist in controlling incomers.

In fact too little too late.

KASHAL

The main issue is not 'preserving the Island for local people'. This is about sorting out the mess our poiticians have created. We need more stringent immigations laws that will actually be used. Immigraation should be capped now. There are job losses every day, the benefit system is being abused left right and centre. There will be more people claiming benefits and soon the pot will run dry. All jobs should only be given to people who have been here over 5 years, this rule must be applied. We need an urgent review of the benefits system, there are so many scams going on such as people claiming rent rebate and renting out rooms, people claiming in more than one name, this is why photographic I.D. cards are a must. They will protect honest people, it is only the fraudsters who will need to worry!! Cut benefits and increase the minimum wage - make it worthwhile for people to go back to work - no-one should be better off on benefits!!.

Fedup Pensioner

I suggest Mr Power and the other politicians do much more than at present. Jobs, housing, medical care and benefits all seriously affect the Islanders now and will in the future. As said in one comment immigrant women get pregnant as quickly as possible once here and then claim benefits and then bring over a family member to look after the child while they work. I have to work part time I can't afford to live here otherwise yet this is where I was born. Tomorrow an immigrant could come and take my place simply because they will work for less as they dont have my overheads. Our politicians should have taken a firmer stance several years ago but failed us. We not only need registration cards with photographic ID but we need to make sure that there are sufficient measures in place at our borders to stop people coming in the first place. We also need to ensure that those who do come do not have serious medical issues as our health system is overloaded and cannot sustain all the extra medical care required.

old jersey girl

Boy these guys are quick on the uptake are they not, too many people here they say, WOW their good!They must have some great plan to sort this out!, maybe stop people from coming in, no that would be racist.Stop paying benefits no that,s descrimination. I know build more houses,but no one can afford them!? I know more offices, but there is no one to rent them !. Give them a pay rise some one will think of something??

Paul troalic

Someone's head should roll over this. I asked Immigration some years ago about foreign nationals arriving in Jersey and being able to seek employment straight away and was told that they could not stop this as it would violate some European protocol. What hogwash it turns out! Our chief Minister appears able to enact laws to stop immigration so what has changed. And where's Senator Routier on all this. Isn't he the minister in charge yet it takes the full weight of public opinion AND his Chief Minister to get him off his backside.

Oh dear , lies and more lies. It has to stop!

the force of law

I suggest you mug up on your law Paul. All EC citizens have the right to come here (Jersey can't stop them without renegotiating our relationship to the UK) and after 5 years they are "locally qualified" and can take any job. In the meantime, they can work in jobs where the company have been given permission to employ non-locally qualified people. [I'm surprised you don't know this considering you used to work for Housing]. Our Chief Minister will not be enacting laws to stop immigration of EC citizens. He might enact laws to stop them gaining employment.

Simple Sid

It's very unusual this guy gets something right.

Archie Rondel

Beware ......The Romanians and the Bulgarians are on thier way. Not to benefit the island but to claim benefits from the island. Secure the cashpoint machines and keep your doors locked. For once ,I absolutely agree with Sean Power, we need to tackle this immigration problem BEFORE it gets out of hand..

evelyn

we need to exept theese people whith open arms and love them they will bring joy and bennefit to jersey please accomadate them and fill your vacant flats .to all landlords

bumble

I this what they mean when they talk about Jerrais?

Its like English but a really bad version.

puffin

Bumble, from reading other threads I believe Evelyn is a 13 year old Polish girl who has previously said she spends a lot of time in Social Security, I don't think she knows any Jerrias :)

Rozel Aubin

Anyone remember Agnieszka?

Widely believed, eventually, to be a Jersey bloke taking the mickey.

La Moye Squirrel

I think this is a wind up. The way you have constructed your mistakes are those that would be composed intentionally by a native speaker. They are not phonetic enough to be from an 'English as a second language' speaker.

Jake Elliott

The irony. An Irish States Member wanting to preserve the island for locals. Maybe if we had a local, non-millionaire, non finance obsessed Assembly we might actually get somewhere for the men and women of this island who have been looked over again and again in all jobs from labour right up to the senior civil service.

KASHAL

19. Archie - Far too late for that Archie - it is already out of hand, but as usual the States are trying their usual cover-up and diversionary tactics - no one will tackle the real issues!!!

Beano

The real unfair issue in it all is that people like myself who have paid into social for 45 years never been out of work till now can not get as much help as others who have been here a shorter time who can claim for more, get free cooker or washing machine more help with rent medical help ext; why have i paid in for all those years to get less help then some one been here for less than 10 years does not matter what my financial circumstances are i have paid in more money to the system then a 1 to 10 year resident.

Shards

Totally agree Beano although in my case I am entitled to nothing as I have some savings (not a lot and they're dwindling fast)and own my flat (via a mortgage), due to the fact I have worked hard and saved hard.

I guess when I have spent everything and default on my mortgage I will get some assistance from the SoJ.

May as well go and have a ball then... Caribbean cruise here I come!! YIPPEEE

Lisa

It's an insurance scheme. That fact would probably be clearer if we just called it National Insurance of course, but it is an insurance scheme. So it doesn't matter how long (or not) someone has been here they are entitled to the same. That's as it should be.

Of course if they are getting more than you then that is wrong.

If we go to the UK and start contributing to their insurance scheme (NI) we are entitled to just the same as them.

Rob

I've been here nearly 7 years now after moving over from the uk on a whim.

I found a job before I left the mainland and have paid my tax and social from day one.

It's been a struggle just to keep myself employed over here but somehow I managed it.

Overpriced rentals hardly any Jobs open to somebody who wasnt residentially qualified and having to take crap jobs nobody else wanted to make ends meet.

See people fresh off the boat who manage to bag decent jobs that should be residency only. How is it they manage to get these jobs?

This is my home I've fought hard to stay here, my current contracts running out soon and with the way the job market is its looking very likely I will have to cut my losses and take a boat out of here, never expect to hold my hand out and get help from the states.

I've never taken a penny in benifits and I'm not even sure what I'm etitled too.

We're not all work shy benifit scrounges who come over here you know. Some of us work hard and contribute.

the wanted

It doesn't matter, Beans view you as an immigrant and therefore you are tarred with the same brush as those who come here with their hands out and expect everything for nothing. Its the Jersey way to make sure you 'know your place'.

Quite baffling how these same Beans have nothing to say on Jersey born popping out kids and expecting free housing and benefits.

This is the land of an indigenous people that do not know their arses from their elbows; the result of generations in a limited gene pool.

mallouin

If this new law will put a stop to this kind of offensive,stupid and silly commenting then bring it on!

Ned

Try going to Australia and indeed any other country- it is the way of the world that incomers are always viewed as that.

the wanted

Totally disagree; go to Australia (as per your example) and you will pay the same rent for property as an Aussie.

Like I said, immigrants need to 'know their place'.

Give me another one, I know you can do better.

Ned

Whether you pay the same rent or not or the same for a pint of milk is irrelevant. the fact is that, in Australia, as in any other country you are viewed as an outsider- it is the way of the world that incomers are always viewed as that.

Rentokil

Oh rubbish!

That is ridiculous! I meet really nice immigrants through work etc from the UK and elsewhere but it doesn't change the simple fact that we cannot cope with the influx of immigrants who have a very immature and silly attitude to the demographics and generic make up of our TINY Island!

It is that simple, as passionate as many are to stay and make a better life if they berate and mock locals they will be challenged for bigoted statements and a sense of entitlement. That's pretty normal anywhere you go in the world!

Irrespective of where someone is from you certainly do not move to another place and start insulting residents and making demands when any place has its own problems and disadvantaged. It is just manners!

The concept of queuing and waiting your turn is not just for rations in war eras. It is common practice to ensure things are as fair as they can be, first come first served, for many who do work in shops and the like what would your bosses say if you were serving those just in the door as opposed to someone waiting whilst everyone else is being tended to? It's not rocket science and neither is requesting thought or consideration for a native community racist either!

If our own population isn't happy and content why welcome more strain and social economic problems to the added stresses? It just doesn't make any sense and makes things harder for everyone in the long run. Why tolerate that?

local

why is it so shocking to some that after 12 years of living and working here I now want to start family?I`ve been living here for 1/3 rd of my life,came at the age of 20,worked hard and paid my taxes for 12 years and I have child now.what crime is it?`cos you talking like it shouldn`t been allowed for immigrants to have children.guess what? Jersey is my home now and I consider myself `local, born elsewhere`. now,that is just outrageous,isn`t it?

Susan

I don't know. is it outrageous? Do you see it as a problem or would you prefer to remain here and stop moaning? Like most places, Jersey welcomes decent folk but offers short shrift to moaning incomers.

La Moye Squirrel

I only hope 'local' that you use the word 'a' where applicable in future in your postings. Also, try starting your sentences with a capital letter. If you really wish to enculturate yourself into a community you need to begin with the fine tuning of the old lingo. Communication in King!

Parktown Prawn

"Communication IN King!" ???

;-)

local

Not sure what if you understand my post.I do not moan.I am happy with my life.it bothers me that others moan.other local mostly.boring...

local

Is my grammar your only problem here? I will let you know when I decide to take some lessons from you hahaha.shame you didn't have anything constructive to say.all the best