Harbour cycle path is 'not in keeping' with area

SERIOUS concerns have been raised about the impact a new £400,000 stretch of cycle path will have on one of St Helier's most historic harbours.

Doug Ford, a committee member of the Friends of the Maritime Museum, disagrees with the plans
Doug Ford, a committee member of the Friends of the Maritime Museum, disagrees with the plans

SERIOUS concerns have been raised about the impact a new £400,000 stretch of cycle path will have on one of St Helier's most historic harbours.

The Friends of the Maritime Museum have warned that the plans to fill in part of the slipway at the English Harbour so the road can be widened to accommodate the path will not be in keeping with the area.

'What will be next,' they said. 'Filling in the harbour for parking?'

The group is objecting to the scheme proposed by Transport and Technical Services, which would involve widening the road around the English and French Harbours by moving the granite wall half way across the slip to widen the road.

TTS say that the granite work would be in the same style as the existing walls and that all the slipway cobbles would be left intact behind and beneath the new structures.

Comments for: "Harbour cycle path is 'not in keeping' with area"

percy egre

Totally agree it will ruin those old slipways, to state that they will be left behind the new structure is a joke

tony

Absolutely agree, £440k for about 30 metres of cycle track, a joke. Cyclists more than happy to use the road. Note not many use the long stretch of cycle lane along by Normans, preferring the road!

Julia

They don't use the one opposite Normans at the moment because it's not joined up - maybe more will use it once you don't just get dumped back onto the road at the harbours? It won't be serious cycle commuters who will use the road anyway, but will open up the area to less confident cyclists and let them cycle all the way to havre des pas

aunty FAGASTO

cycle down the slip and up the other side, or CYCLE ON THE ROAD. I'VE MANAGED FINE FOR THE LAST 20YEARS... WHY CAN'T EVERYONE ELSE????

conrad

DANDARA have already ruined the harbour

Waste of Time

It is good to know that TTS really understand what is essential, needed and nice to have. In the current climate to spend £440k on a scheme such as this is balmy.

Save the money and demise the post of the civil servant who came up with the scheme and put the money towards the hospital where the services will be benefited by all.

Neil

The director of TTS, Tristan Dodd is a cyclist. The TTS building is at the end of the proposed cycle route. Need to say anymore?

Le Folly

Is Mr Dodd of local origin?

Does he know what a slipway is?

Scrutineer

It is also, of course, one route that a cyclist could use to get to Planning......?

Clive Pearce

I'm with Doug on that one. Chopping into a bit more of Jersey & spoiling an historic area. If you have money to spare spend it on the 'La Folie' & reopen the pub.

BeanThereDoneThat

They spent money on La Folie just after the last tenant left. It has been empty ever since, this is despite offers of rental, which if taken up at the time would have seen the public house open and trading. The bid was turned down, to date the revenue loss amounts to some £120,000.

Great at running business the States, WEB, Jersey Property Holdings call them what you wish.

Sum total is they are all bloody useless, now TTS want to join the band of wasters.

Seems like 2013 will see no change just waste and spend on madcap schemes.

Jersey jack

Clearly somebody in an office got bored. I happen to work down La Collette and drive this stretch of road several times a day, yet I have clearly missed the vast volume of cyclists navigating this area which requires £400,000 of our taxpayers money to be spent on yet another idiotic scheme?

Captain Fantastic

This area is much wider than other town roads, not sure if is really needed. Again not a lot of thought gone into the needs of cyclists, money would be better spent on improving or placing tracks elsewhere.

Realist

Yes it's a barmy idea and SSI's are there for this very reason, to protect historic sites and our coastline from those who don't understand. Deputy Duhamel,you are the enviroment minister,are you going to uphold the law or has this already been given the nod?

Perspicuous

This is an absurd idea. What problem is it trying to fix?

C@rLiNHo5

I'm a cyclist and I WANT a path built connecting town to Havre des Pas BUT I DO NOT want them to move this wall, it's an old feature which looks lovely, it's part of history and I like it. I certainly don't see the need to nor want them to spend £400,000 on this project, it really isn't necessary when the foundations are already there. THEY CAN CUT THE COST OF THIS RIGHT DOWN BY AT LEAST 3 QUARTERS, ALL THEY NEED TO DO IS CEMENT OVER A 1.5 METER SECTION OF THE EXISTING RAMP (FLUSH WITH THE WALL) SO THAT IT DIPS AND THEN COMES OUT THE OTHER SIDE, THIS IS THE PATH PEDESTRIANS TAKE ALREADY. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS SPEND, THERE IS NO NEED TO CREATE HAVOC AND INCONVENIENCE AND DESTROY EXISTING FEATURES!!! (REDESIGN, REDESIGN, REDESIGN IS THE KEY, USE WHAT'S ALREADY THERE, YOU'RE OVER COMPLICATING IT).

mike hunt

one problem with your idea. At high tide you would need a pedalo or snorkel!

T Le Brocq

Ok calm down. The last time I heard someone talk like that "I WANT, I WANT I WANT" was when I was walking past the local primary school.

R B Bougourd

Its not a RAMP, it's a slipway and to cement over any of its beautiful granite cobbles would be sacrilege, as would burying any of them under a widened carriageway, although the latter would at least demonstrate to future archeologists what Philistines lived in Jersey in 2013.

Anyone who has ever watched a receding wave poppling over granite slipway cobbles will appreciate the beauty of these precious local structures.

puffin

I have not hear the word 'poppling' before but I love it and totally understand what you are saying, and can only agree whole heartedly. As a kid I had such fun flying down the slip and up the other side on bikes even when the tide was up a bit!

To let them ruin this sea wall and slipway by covering it up is absolutely disgusting, and just another sign of the sorry mess Jersey is becoming now it is run by a bunch of clowns.

Wendy

It's exactly because of ridiculous ideas like this that I gave my support the purchase of the land at Plemont!

Dave

Are the harbours not SSI listed structures? If not they should be. This is the old harbour part of the original. An absolute disgrace from TTS time for Deputy Lewis to resign.

Jerry Gosselin

Well done, Mr Ford for speaking out. At least there's a chance they might listen to you...

Helier Falle

I totally agree with Doug Ford. The encroachment onto the slipway as TTS plans are proposing will totally ruin the aesthetic nature and purpose for which the slipway was designed and created. We spend alot of time and effort saving and preserving our large historic buildings and structure, eg, Mont Orgueill castle, St.Catherines breakwater, but we often overlook some of our more non-descript historic slipways, such as the as yet and unbelievably untouched unique slipway structure we have at the English Harbour.

If encroached upon, it's original functionality and its charm will be lost forever.

If a cycle track (and people's safety) is considered more important than preserving an historic slipway, then a compromise could be made by spending the £400k on a well-designed steel boardwalk-style cantilevered platform to enable people and cyclists to get across safely. I wonder if TTS were asked to consider this alternative idea..?

Judge Jeffries

Helier, I thoroughly agree with you on this one. However, you and others are totally missing the sub-plot on this one which is that TTS wish to widen the road in readiness for re-routing the main road along the back of Commercial Buildings between La Folie and the Tunnel. If you recall this was part and parcel of the the original Andrews Downie plan to make the land in front of Commercial buildings a port side boulevard with hotels and al fresco dining etc; hence the desire to convert the Old Harbour to a marina. You will find that this is still on the agenda of the the new States of Jersey Development Company, Harbours and Planning as well as TTS.

Jerry Gosselin

Judge Jeffries- you say the States want to re-route the main road "along the back of Commercial Buildings between La Folie and the Tunnel".

How do they intend to achieve that without mass demolitions, compulsory purchases and a multi-million pound budget? Have the traders and residents been informed? It sounds like madness. Then again, the underpass sounded like madness for the little gain it promised, but they still went ahead and built that anyway!

Andre

I also agree with you Helier. A boardwalk would be be simpler, cheaper and less damaging. It could also be removed in future, if necessary (that is the basic principle behind alterations to historic structures). Something needs to be done, because the present cycle track runs out on a very busy corner, requiring cyclists to cross over to continue along the road. A second boardwalk could complete the missing link on the South Pier harbour side. I know people are bemoaning the cost, but money has already been spent on the new cycle track - money which will effectively have been wasted unless the missing bits are completed. I'm sure THAT is why it isn't much used at present(and if you built a road or railway like that, I doubt that would be much used either!).

C Le Verdic

The boardwalk should be great for testing cycling skills during six months of the year when it is covered in slime!

Tut tut

That's nearly half a million pounds and probably will be in the end, I just don't believe what I hear. We must have money coming out of our ears. And stop this rediculous damage to our heritage. TTS should be ashamed of themselves.

Russell Labey

Questions should be asked of TTS as to how this offensive "scheme" was able to progress this far; that anyone in the department could actually dream this up as appropriate or sensible and then be taken seriously is completely terrifying.

Save the English (harbour)

I bet the NTJ and Sir Philip won't get uppity about this one but they da*n well should !

Doug is exactly right 'Do not touch!'.

But there is a genuine solution and that is to reinstate the old railway bridge that ran from the La Folie Roadway to the corner of the Commercial Buildings Wall.This type of thing has been done for Greenways and Cycleways the world over and is likely to cost about the same.No moorings need be affected and no new walls.

jerseyjim

Just leave it alone... Use the already wide pavement...

mike hunt

It's a lot of money! But it if you spread it over,say 40 years that's just 10k a year. This is a fantastic opportunity to make this route safe and a more pleasant experience. This makes Havres des Pas safely accessible from Corbiere/St Peter/St Brelade/St Lawrence and West Park. would you be happy for your wife or child negotiate this route at present?

You can live in the past or use vision to improve our way of life.

How much did the cliff paths cost? what's their value? Priceless

The Thinker

There is of course a flaw to your lets make this a safe route. What about the pedestrian ?

I use the current path which runs along the harbour on a frequent basis. This a very narrow track considering its for both cyclists and pedestrians in both directions. As a pedestrian you simply cannot hear a cycle approach from behind you. The present track is blatantly unsafe so please lets not waste any more money on a flawed idea.

roombay42

If you suggest that the cyclist should warn you by ringing his (usually non existant) bell, you get either abuse or a bemused look, (what's a bell?).

carl ecobichon

I cycle this route with my wife and ten year old son, never had a problem with the traffic. Stop wasting the publics money and leave our history alone.

Davey West

Let us not forget the St. Helier roads committee passed this crazy idea with the blessing of keen cyclist Constable Crowcroft.

Obviously judging by the comments above completely out of touch with reality, and the wishes of the public, easy answer.

Resign.

Davey.

the thin wallet

there's more than one person who is out of touch running the show.

Blade

Well said Doug.

However This will get the go ahead becuase CON CROWCROFT hates cars. I drive passed the cycle track in Gorey everyday and no one uses it.

Caroline Labey another numpty politician had £500k spent on the cylce track whilst the road which is used by everyone is falling apart. Pot holes are every where.

Please stop wasting more taxpayers money on personal gratification projects.

old jersey girl

I agree I live near the cycle path at Gorey it is one of the biggest wastes of money ever, no one ever users it. The foot path on the other side of the common which is used all the time is like a mud track when it rains, and as for the very expensive bus shelter, which lets the rain in, and is like a wind tunnel, well words fail me.What sort of brains?? are running this Island?.I am not sure what the green painted lanes are for,down where I live they park on them, stop on them to answer their mobiles, or else the children use them as skating tracks.

Umm

Why would you want to cycle to Havre Des Pas anyway?

When you get there, then what? The coast road?

Nice cycle that is!

Clare

I use this cycle route all the time and never take my little one in his trailer simply because of the road part in question. So I for one will be very happy if this goes ahead! It's better spent this way than on a steam clock which doesn't work, or a toad at the top of a pole, or a few bronze cows for drunks to climb on!! At last something I can use YAY! Well done whoever thought of this, now I can get from Havre Des Pas all the way to Corbiere without using the road!

And for those saying it's not worth it, have you risked your life on this road during the day time? Try it, you may feel differently after an overloaded HGV has whistled past your ears!

roombay42

I am always horrified when I see a small child in one of those trailers behind a bicycle. Surely they are the most dangerous thing on the road. A small child would be crushed in the event of an accident where a car rear-ended a cyclist with one of those trailers. Don't forget, accidents can occur through reasons other than neglectful driving.

Clare

Sorry, did I just say I don't use it because I have to go on the road? A small child would be crushed in a car, on a bike, in a trailer anything in the event of an accident! Therefore I welcome this cycle path! What a pointless comment!

roombay42

I didn't mention anything about where or how you cycle. I expresses my worries about those child trailers on the rear of cycles. A child secured in a car seat would have a greater chance of survival in a car in the event of a rear-end shunt.

The Thinker

I am totally against spending this amount of money on this particular cycle scheme. It is wrong on so many levels, nor least the Historical angle.

However I do believe that TTS need to spend some money improving the current provision. At present dozens of people commute into Town along the cycle track from St. Aubin. A cycle track which has been in existence for many years and yet there is no suitable route for the commuters to actually cross from the track into the Town area. As a result people try to get off at West Park, some try their luck at the Gloucester Street / Esplanade junction whilst others hang on till to the pedestrian crossing near Liberation Square. It is far from satisfactory for cyclists, pedestrians and motor vehicles. Surly there should be at least one proper route made for the cyclists to cross over the Esplanade. To me, spending money on this would make far more sense.

Blonde

I cycle this road/route regularly & have no issue using this big of road! The road is plenty wide enough to allow cars to pass a slow moving cyclist. Stop wasting money & get on with the joke track at Gorey...

Oooh missing the bleeding obvious

Make it one way from North to South and use the empty side of the road as a cycle path. Would cost a couple of hundred quid in paint and signs.

There is access from the north for both east and west traffic, then up over the hill and either down to HDP or Mulcaster street.

This will also get rid of the nerve jangling hairpin from HDP down to the harbours.

Only people this would inconvenience is CT Plus (the buses) who use la collette for overnight parking.

Scandinavian Flick

Nerve jangling hairpin?

You obviously can't drive.

Only large trucks and people who do not understand how to take a hairpin can't negotiate this in a oner.

I was taught on my driving test in the 80s how to do this.

Maybe get some more lessons?

R B Bougourd

Try doing it in a first generation Nissan Micra. Nigh on impossible due to the appalling lock.

When I see other motorists looking on in frustration as a Micra driver takes three goes to reverse park, I think "In this instance it is the car, not the driver (hopefully)".

'Obviously you can't drive' an undriveable car!

roombay42

So we have to spend a load of money because there are a few old cars left on the road that don't have excellent locks. How did we all manage before 1980?

COM-Mentator

This is the first step towards regenrating the area for the development of flats on the La Folie site.

Bowie 2

Not grand enough for my liking, if we're going to put in a cycle track why not go the whole way and build a new tunnel through Mount Bingham. Now there's an idea the lunatics with the public purse should give serious consideration!

C Le Verdic

Already there, courtesy of the Germans, but it would mean crossing back over to the other side of the road!

Bowie 2

Now all we need is a flyover!

Why a new tunnel?

Just make the existing one for pedestrians and cyclists only.

COM-Mentator

And the plans to redevlop La Folie into apartments IS in keeping with area?

Or painiting Normans bright yellow is in keeping with the area?

Or allowing Dandara to Build Castle Quay and the social housing next to the marina is in keeping with the harbours generally?

Beercan

What a pointless waste of time and money.

Are Jersey civil servants really that underworked and unaware of the need to spend money carefully and effectively?

Jersey Pete

Clare you must work for the States or simply an uncaring Mum with such a stupid trailer for a small child on any road in Jersey!

Colin

How can they afford to do this if they can't even afford a study on the Tesson Mill flooding??