Plémont site worth ‘as little as £4m’

LAND at the former Pontin’s holiday camp could be worth as little as £4m – £850,000 less than developers paid for it in 2005 – a new independent valuation has claimed.

The proposition lodged by Chief Minister Ian Gorst to buy the site will be debated on Tuesday
The proposition lodged by Chief Minister Ian Gorst to buy the site will be debated on Tuesday

LAND at the former Pontin’s holiday camp could be worth as little as £4m – £850,000 less than developers paid for it in 2005 – a new independent valuation has claimed.

The Treasury department has released the latest estimate of the value of land at Plémont, carried out on behalf of Jersey Property Holdings by a firm of local surveyors.

The new price tag flies in the face of owner Trevor Hemmings’s company, Plémont Estates Ltd, who claim that the area should fetch around £14 million. Previous estimates from the States put a maximum value of £7.8 million on the area.

Jersey’s Treasury department released the latest estimate ahead of Tuesday’s debate on Chief Minister Ian Gorst’s proposition for the States to buy the land on behalf of the public to protect it from development.

Comments for: "Plémont site worth ‘as little as £4m’"

Confused.com

So good to see the states estimate of what something is worth is twice what their experts suggest

Jon

Well of course they going to value it lower that the developers own valuation, they wouldn't want to bite off the hand that feeds them would they ??????

frugal

How much will it cost to return the site to nature, and how much per annum to maintain the site in future? Two thirds is great, build the houses! and ask the developer to set the remaining site to nature.

evelyn

jobseekers will return it to nature

Jersey Boy

Spot on. Even if the site is worth only £4m and I can't see how it can possibly be valued so low, what about the cost of demolishing the existing building? It is probably full of asbestos and will cost £ms to get rid of it. And for what? One third of the site hundreds of yards from the headland.

Lewton

Anyone that believes this is an even bigger idiot than the people who came up with this valuation.142,000 per plot, without any consideration for planning expenses and contractors profit, or the land that was to be gifted to the public.In any financial climate. dream on!

I suppose this is the same independent surveyors that nearly lost us the Jersey College for Girls site for just over a million a few years ago.

This just goes to show the quality of employees that Jersey Property Holdings has, that they would issue this as a press release. College boys and ex civil servants living in a bubble with no concept of the real world.

Philip Bailhache, instead of using this as an exercise to see how much you can manipulate the COM put your hands in your pocket and buy this for the National Trust,you can well afford to. Far too much chamber time is being spent on this fiasco,whilst the real problems of unemployment, inward migration, a failing health service and pensions time bomb are being ignored, or is a distraction because they haven't got a bloody clue what to do.

Mike

£4million! What a load of rubbish. Whoever submitted that valuation should go find another job, and if Ballaiche and Co believe that valuation they are equally out of touch. I am in favour of buying Plemont but not in favour of diddling Hemmings out of a fair price. He has permission for 28 houses. At an incredibly low plot value of £200,000, that alone equals £5.6 million. I think his estimate of £300,000 per plot is more realistic, that makes the minimum value £8.4 million. Given that he does have planning permission one should factor in some profit for each house, even if only £50,000 would add another £1.4 million to the value. That makes a very conservative estimate at £9.8 million. Ballaiche and Co should respond to my calculation with one of their own, but not quoting some idiotic valuation that makes no sense whatsoever, regardless of how bad the property market currently is. And for those that think I am in favour of the development, I say again, I would like it bought and returned to nature, but not at Hemmings' expense (unless of course he chooses to make a philanthropic gesture).

Save Jersey from itself before it's too late.

"but not at Hemmings’ expense (unless of course he chooses to make a philanthropic gesture)"

Perhaps that's what he should have done before it ever got this far.

As for diddling a property developer, ah, poor Diddums, the guy must have been smug with the certainty that the entire feeding chain would be well looked after. This IS Jersey, after all!

Mike

I dont get your point. Have you been drinking?

Magic mike

Shocking display by the states. Take the land if you feel the need to but be prepared to pay the market price. It's going to cost you

Mike

The states made it clear it would be a land swap from their £2billion portfolio, so a replacement of land for land. Not coming directly out of our tax coffers. I hope they stick to that if the deal happens, not sure how far we can trust these politicians anymore.

James1

Unfortunately a land swap is coming straight out of the taxpayers coffers, given that we own the land, not the government.

If I was Hemmings, I would give the states until jan 1st to meet HIS price, failing which I would withdraw my offer of returning 2/3rds, and telling the states he will see them in court if they try and force through a compulsory purchase.

The way they are treating this owner of private land is disgusting. I hope he loses patience and calls the lawyers in. Unfortunately, I can see millions being spent and us all ending up with nothing because of a few states members egos. Idiots.

Taxpayer

28 x £511,000 (average price 2012 for a 3 bedroom house) = £14,308000

Almost exactly what the owner is asking, of course that isn't taking in to account building costs, then of course houses at Plemont will be much higher than the Jersey average.

This is self indulgent nonsense and is a total waste of taxpayers money.

The States are increasing duty on just about everything, have introduced 20% means 20%, GST and increased it once already, loads of user pays charges ie hospital etc, froze public sector pay for two years and now offering a paltry 1% wage rise this year and next, Housing wants to increase States social housing rents by up to 50%, yet apparently we have the money for this, and then you want to sell it to the National Trust for a fraction of what it cost the taxpayer?

Who makes this sh*t up?

Two thirds of it is being returned for public use and we need more houses, so what's the problem, they have planning permission so let them go a head and save the money to be spent where it's really needed, helping the almost 3,000 people who can't find work and have the humiliation of having to live off income support!

Nature1

I don't live on the Island anymore but all this property talk is what ruined other Islands. They could have done garden allotments and given jobs to the unemployed to grow vegetables and sell and produce locally. It won't be long before the Island will have a food crisis because there is no land left to grow.

Peter

I would gladly pay Mr Hemmings £8,000,000 for the site - and still be able to clear a tidy profit. This mis-leading realease is in the spirit of the Jersey Way (Les Pas, St John's compensation, NT promises, etc).

I am surprised that Chief Minister Gorst is willing to peddle such blatant propaganda and that he assumes that the States Assembly sheep will simply bleat in his favour.

Buy the site by all means, but do it fairly and don't resort to this - it makes the whole Island dirty.

Scrutineer

If this valuation is true then the NT can pay for the site. They would scarcely even need a loan. Given all the noise they have been making it should be possible to raise £4M with ease. My message to those who attended the supporters meeting in the town hall is 'Get your cheque books out'.

The Old Git

Another expense to added to the buying cost.

If the planning permissin has already been given then there would also be compensation to be paid to the developers for renegading on the permission?

Will the debate on Tuesday be decided on the amount to spend, or will they go for the final cost when they and the owner decides on the final amount after they have agreed to buy.

It could be very costly.

Trustees of the public purse

As I have long considered the States Members should be trustees of the taxpayers funds and not treat them as their own to spend. If they make inept and incompetent decisions then those that voted in favour may be liable personally for the losses incurred. We must demand competent politicians at this time and stop needless waste of money.

Just build the houses and then see if they can be sold for the sort of money new build properties seemed to command. Somehow I doubt there will be many takers and as for bank finance to build them well lets see if any banks will lend for this. I doubt it nowadays.

evelyn

the evaluation is correct it is worth less what goes up has to come down

velyn

Don't you mean 'valuation'?

I Pasdenom

Evelyn,

Clearly you do not understand the very basics of valuation.

You appear to be thinking of gravity.

the thin wallet

this valuation has just halved all land values , imho.

Real Truthseeker

How on earth can anyone believe this! This is just one long publicity stunt by Messrs Bailhache and Gorst to achieve their own ends. I do hope the remainder of States members vote against this ridiculous proposition.

R. Williams

It would be worth giving you a lump sum to return you to New Zealand as you obviously don't appreciate the importance of this purchase to Jersey in the future. I know you don't care about the island because when your cushy finance number ends you'll hot foot it out of here.

jerseythepartiesover

The guy owns the land and he has planning permission. That site has been a disgrace to Jersey for years. No good bleating now. It looks to me to be one of the best plans put forward lately. Probably the only one really. The Planning Department have ruined Jersey but maybe just maybe they have got this one right.

mallouin

Whatever path the States take I truly hope that their legal advice is watertight bearing in mind that their record in this respect is pretty poor!

Sanity

R Williams – No Plemont is NOT worth the price we have already been forced to pay.

This is not about monetary value but the deception, spin and shear sleaze that has already been employed. Now with this seemingly dodgy valuation prepared at public expense I fear that the ugly word corruption is also starting to creep in.

I listened to the “public” meeting last week and was disgusted at the number of half truths and spin being used to promote this venture. “No tax-payers money will be used” – “we will just sell redundant assets”. Why if these assets were redundant have we not sold them to repair our schools, fix the hospital, plug the pension gap and the hundred plus other things we can’t afford. Perhaps because this is not true?

Look forward 6 months. States of Jersey fix an artificially low price and compulsory purchase the land. Mr Hemming’s takes legal action and gets an independent judge who concurs. The public get a legal bill of many millions, evidence of corruption at the highest level of Jersey Government and judicial system is exposed in the international press, blog world goes critical and our finance systems which relies on sound and honest governance runs to the Isle of Man as fast as an electronic payments permits.

R. Williams

Dear Sanity: Regardless of all the comings and goings behind the scene, Plemont is too important to sacrifice to save a sum of money.

I Pasdenom

R Williams,

Once you take financial issues out of the equation, surely you should argue that ALL other vacant properties should be returned to nature at Public expense.

like the JCG site, boat yard on Gorey pier, west park pool, St Ouen's bay (sea defences), Odeon cinema etc.etc. huge amounts of agricultural land etc etc

If not why not?

roger wing

Hard as I try I cannot understand how it could be that land purchased without planning permission could possibly be worth less than the same land WITH planning permission ? Obviously I am missing the point here, it is the same States of Jersey that gave planning permission who now want the land 'on the cheap' for their own devices. Just one luxurious property within that plot of land with private driveways, gardens and garaging, pool etc., could be worth anything up to £20 million to the right buyer.

Sean

Pay the owner a fair price while we can, as have wasted considerably more for a lot less and move on swiftly to the real problems such as unemployment, immigration and why we reside on the most expensive island in the world.

Sanity

R Williams – It’s not about the financial cost.

It’s at the cost of the loss of honesty and integrity and the blatant spin now coming from some ministers. The loss of trust in our leaders who have to now been preaching austerity when they have now miraculously found a billions pounds of redundant assets. The cost to our children who have been made to suffer poorly maintained school buildings because the money was not available for repairs.

The loss of respect for the National Trust in the perceived shoddy and inequitable treatment melted out to Mr Hemming.

The loss of neutrality and therefore the integrity of our legal, political and judicial systems which appear to have been usurped by the “pro” purchase and in the production of seemingly inaccurate valuations.

At the end of the day the housing being built will become listed and in a hundred years time the National Trust will be fighting against their demolition.

Mario

Would you put money on these builds lasting 100 years.

Schools seem to be being replaced on a reguar basis of late. Le Rocquier barely did 30 years before needing to be replaced. It had to have a lot of maintain done over the years. The junior school near by did over 100 years in its role.

Propaganda

Well here it is, I never thought I'd see the day, looks like Senator Ozouf is actually accepting the valuation provided by a professional!

http://www.statesassembly.gov.je/AssemblyPropositions/2012/P.090-2012Com(re-issue).pdf

No mention of not believing the chap or asking some of his friends like he did with Lime Grove.

I wonder if he will put in a lower offer ha ha

Pip Clement

I think the disaster could go on for another half decade or more.

Mr Hemming will not build as the housing market is dead in the water and the States will not buy.

Maybe it will just be left to rot in to the landscape of it's own accord?