Long, hopeless wait for a home

THOUSANDS of Islanders are stuck in housing limbo as they cannot afford to buy a home that adequately meets their needs, according to a new report from the States Statistics Unit.

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THOUSANDS of Islanders are stuck in housing limbo as they cannot afford to buy a home that adequately meets their needs, according to a new report from the States Statistics Unit.

The report revealed that in the next three years, families will struggle to move into homes that are big enough to accommodate them, while first-time buyers will not be able to afford to get on the first rung of the property ladder.

The Jersey Housing Assessment confirms the long-held belief that affordability is a crucial issue for Islanders, with nearly 1,500 households facing the frustration of not being able to get on, or move up, the ladder.

There are more than 1,000 private-sector homes required in order to meet Jersey’s short-term housing requirements, according to the report.

Comments for: "Long, hopeless wait for a home"

paulc

so do we need to bring down the price of homes or lend people money so they can afford to buy? hmmm, i wonder.

paulc

actually it looks like uk, france, et al with their attack on corporate tax avoidance and tax havens should do a pretty good job to bring down house prices on their own.

the future

Has anyone told planning about this ?

Susan

Not immediately relevant, really.

S2

Nothing to do with planning, except maybe your personal agenda.

Too few homes, blame planning.

Too many homes, blame planning.

Is that how it works?

The future

There is a supply/demand equation which effectively controls the price of property in Jersey. The more companies with more property on the market the lower the price. A shortage of property, (which can be artificially created by buying all building plots and delaying building) keeps prices high. Delaying construction has an inflationary effect on prices.

Enid

No, I don't think so.

Andy

Lets face it property is too far overpriced in this Island...simply lower prices to a reasonable level....but yet if your paying a morgage for a property you paid £500,000 for your hardly going to sell it for lower than that price....so stale mate....banks and morgage providers a few years back simply allowed people to borrow what they wanted so prices rose and look whats happened!!

evelyn

its not the property that costs its the land property costs nothing to build 25.000 for 3 bed house the rest is on the land

Overpopulated

Obviously you have never had anything to do with building in Jersey!

Land costs are high but so are building costs. £25,000 maybe in somewhere like Scotland, but Jersey building costs are probably 4 times that if not more

I Pasdenom

evelyn,

£25k for a decent 3bed house?

I'll supply the land if you guarantee me that price to build the house.

evelyn

yes timberframe houses really cheap look on google

evelyn

they dont pay high wages so why cost 4 times as much

PTF

That is Timber Frame on google and not in Jersey. You could probably get just the Timber Frame internal skin and roof supplied for this, which doesn't include erection or any other materials or finishes.

The Chav

so "families will struggle to move into homes that are big enough to accommodate them". Well I suggest that if you can only afford to live in a flat that can house say 3 people that you don't start producing enough kids to start a football team. Cut your cloth accordingly you can't have everything in life!

JerseyBoy

Totally Agree!

Qwerty

I agree with you - but we need to translate this message into other languages too!

WB

Totally agree - only the wealthy or privileged should be allowed to breed… : /

Renegade

Do you have to be wealthy or do you have to have no debts, and both parents earning a reasonable salary?

In fairness my mother said that if she and my father had waited this long I wouldn't have been born!

Hard Worker

The idea that everyone should be able to have as many children as they want, no matter what their finances or levels of responsibility are like, is what has got everyone into the giant mess we are in. What happens 10 or 20 years down the line when everyone still holds that view?

We live in a modern world now but go back a few centuries and if you couldn't afford to look after your children they starved. Of course society does not allow such a thing these days and we are all very lucky, but so many people are abusing that moral code that the rest of us are taxed to our eyeballs to support their lifestyle.

If people want children they should work hard to be able to support them. The world does not owe anyone a living. If you want good things you should have to work for them. If you don't have the money to have a child, then don't have a child. Or if you really are desperate to cram a child into your current home then instead of adding to the worlds population crisis why not adopt a child?

Too many people don't bother planning ahead for their futures and if they can't be responsible enough to work hard and save during their 20's then they shouldn't expect to have children in their 30's.

Gemma V

Has anyone said that?

If you are a couple living in a pokey two-bed flat with a young kid and you know that you cannot afford to get anything bigger, what would possess you to have another child? Do you think the rest of us taxpayers should all roll over and make special provision for you just because of your want to have another child? I need to move into a more expensive house. It doesn't have to be bigger but it does need to be in a better location. This is for health reasons, it is far from a choice. I can't afford it so I can't move. That's life. And of course while my health continues to decline my work life suffers and my earning potential lessens. At least healthy couples have the potential to improve their earnings, even if it means taking on a well-paid job that doesn't bring them job satisfaction, you can't always have your cake and eat it.

evelyn

no wrong only the sensible should be allowed

coninSpector

Gemma V

Dont worry, the States provide afffordable rental accommodation for 2.2-3,4 or 5 children families. It is not just the priveleged who are allowed to breed. For those who want to buy, the first rung on the ladder is normally a one bedroomed flat and aspirations for more than that requires hard work from both partners.

GB

yes, agree, Jèrriais

CP

Looking at the photo above, building matchbox houses on every inch of land clearly isn't the answer.

There are many things that I would like but cannot afford. I may find it frustrating, but until I have sufficient money... that's life.

WILLIAMS

totally agree. Basically if you cant afford it then leave for the UK - The island is overpopulated anyway, and building 1000 homes for the short term wont solve the long term.

Overpopulated

There are plenty of planning consents to build - but even Dandara are now stopping - no company is going to build if they cannot sell the result.

There are loads of flats and houses that are empty

Jersey is now in the situation where the mad building boom of the past ten years combined with insane lending - 100% mortgages, interest only mortgages, liar loan mortgages meets unsustainable population increase.

And now people are losing their jobs by the day.

If you cannot afford to live in Jersey you need to move somewhere else.

debatable

Ah the irony 'Overpopulated' and 'There are loads of flats and houses that are empty' .....

Polter

I moved elsewhere:-). Beans History:

1950-1970 Bean worked and lived

1971-2005 Bean lived & worked

2005-2012 Bean worked

2013-.... Bean has no work

Gemma V

@ debatable

Houses lying empty isn't automatically related to overpopulation or lack thereof! Jersey's infrastructure is struggling to cope with the number of people on the rock, that is a sign of overpopulation.

Scrutineer

Overpopulated, if this (ie all these empty properties) is true then it is going to lead to further downward correction in property values over time is it not? Prices will carry on falling across the price spectrum (with 1 or 2 exceptions).

debatable

On the contrary Gemma, I would say the claim of significant number of empty homes does fly in the face of claims that the 'rock' is overpopulated.

On another point, it is testament to the small minded views of many on this forum that debate always comes back to the issue of immigration, no matter what the initial topic.

coninSpector

Overpopulated

If everyone took your advice and left for the UK, who is going to buy the empty houses and flats you complain about. Most Jersey folk are sorted. It is only the immigrants who complain.

Stephen

I agree, with the important qualification that Jersey born people should not be forced to leave their own island.

This should, of course, be bolstered by strict immigration control and the enforcement of J category licences in order to ensure that those brought in to do a particular job do so and do not abuse the system, as is is sadly the case at the moment.

In Australia, a specialist work visa falls away if you leave the contracted employment and you are then obliged to leave the contry. Something similar is required here as a matter of some urgency.

Kyle

You and Australia, what happened to the true people of Australia????????????

Sense

The Austalian model is a good one and could be adopted here quite easily.

They strictly control immigration and their country is thousands of times the size of our tiny island.

Local Immigrant

And this is news??

Bo

More to the point, many Islanders are also afraid to buy because of the current market situation with employment so fragile along with the fear finance will shut down.

Home owners will no longer have a home worth what they paid, bricks and mortar are no-longer our financial safeguard for the future these days within the island, what have the COM done to save us from this, nothing!

Old News

A massive shame, will be a long road but prices will fall to sensible levels eventually. If the people at the top cant sell/reduce the asking price (as will be in negative equity)then it just goes down the the chain....

Similarly, who will lend to two average salary workers in Jersey - Will need at least 10+% deposit and based on the average 400k house, people simply will never get that sort of money anymore unless Mummy/Daddy help out.

Prices will have to come down at least another 40% to be realistic and encourage buying again....and that wont happen for some time. Also, lenders will have to relax a bit more, again will not happen this decade.

Government lending to help first time buyers is also not the option, it just delays the problem.

Not easy to resolve....

jerseythepartiesover

As the article says everyone in Jersey knows it. The government has for decades refused to confront the problem because most of them are landlords. They keep the status quo because it suits them. JEP do some journalism and ask all the council of ministers and their deputies what their property interests are in the island, in fact ask them all.

SMALL BUSINESS

Well said Chav & will reduce social payments as well!

Fred

Yes great idea..........work or get out. We are all sick of paying for those who choose not to work. Yes of course there are some who cannot work through disability or health reasons....and don't flour things up in a pink and fluffy manner, those people who "cannot" work are in the minority with the vast majority being spongers.

Jb

The housing prices on the island are beyond ridiculous!! How is anyone able to afford to buy there own home?? Tiny flats are costing a fortune, never mind a home to accomodate a family!! You would think that everyone was millionaires the way some of the houses are priced over here and the wages haven't exactly been increasing along with the prices now have they? I think housing and estate agents want to look properlty at the costing and value of somep roperties! I sawo ne the other day - Farm cottage in need of a lot of work - 750k!! hahaha r u serious!! I know the amiland houses are cheaper in certain area's due to wages etc but Jersey is seriously a joke!! How are any of the young families or young adults meant to get onto the property ladder without the help of there family etc!! This island is making it far to difficult for anyone to get a good start!!

percy egre

Lets build more expensive flats and get more immigrants in to increase demand

james1

So your idea for reducing prices in Jersey is to build less properties to meet the rising demand ?

Are you sure you're not a states member ?

Warren J

Jersey no longer cares about first time buyers - Where are the basic new homes such as Maufant Village which in their day were basic starter homes, which people then imporved. Oh no, there are first time buyer homes at La Moye with granite exteriors and top notch kitchens, starting at £450,000 - Some £50,000 more than my house is worth !

If you cannot afford a used house, how can you afford new ?

Rentokil

That's because the first wave of first time buyers got greedy and realised how much cash they could make by adding conservatories and loft conversions etc... Not to mention many ex states members owning property and filling their pension pots. Yet again GREED!!!

Marx

The whole Island is living in a bubble and it's about time it changed anyway. The average wage in Jersey doen't get you anywhere compared to property prices, so give it a few years and BOOM. I'm not rich (normal admin job) but my house couldn't even be bought for 1 Million in Jersey and my mortgage could even be paid on social. Most new properties in Jersey are of poor quality and the kitchens aren't even fitted properly but sold as luxury, also just have to bang on the wall and you'll find it's cheap plasterboard. Jersey is still a nice place but the golden years are over and if nothing's done now you'll have a lost generation. As nice as the Island is, (could get worse) people who studied and worked hard for years want a decent standard home, so will just move to other places and the talent is gone.............

Gk

I know let's build some more affordable flats?

evelyn

more flats needed for future imigrants

kyle

But they bring income, they rent & don't buy.

Australia

They take jobs which prevents Jersey people taking the same jobs and getting a mortgage.

Shanghai

But they create jobs in the first place Australia. Where do you work and where does our electricity come from?

New Zealand

I don't believe that they do create jobs. Where does your electricity come from?

Ac-dc

Mine comes out of the plug hole

Zippy

These surveys make my blood boil.

People these days seem to think they deserve to have the property they want but yet are totally unwilling to help themselves get it. I'd love a 3 bed house with a garden and garage but I cannot afford that so I "had" to buy a 2 bed place with a carport and yard and I make do because that is what I can afford and the reasons I can afford that are :-

1) I worked hard at school

2) I didn't spend my earnings on weekends out, holidays, expensive cars, drinking, smoking, etc

3) I chose not to have kids until I was in a position to provide for them and give them a home.

4) I chose a career path that allowed me to earn a decent wage

5) I didn't live on credit or take loans for everything, if I couldn't afford to buy it outright I didn't have it.

Most of the people who whinge about not being able to afford a home have failed to plan for the future in one or more of the above. Who's fault is that ? People have what are called life choices to make and these affect how their life pans out so if they chose to take a path that restricts their ability to save and put together a deposit decent enough to buy a property then this is one their own head. Whilst other people have suffered, scrimped and saved to get by whilst putting together a deposit these people have lived the highlife to one degree or another and thus do not deserve to own a house. This is something they need to man up and live with and stop whining and wanting/expecting the States to compensate for them bad chooses !

Jersey Girl

Well said Zippy :-)

pauper

It's not everyone who start life with loving parents and good schooling, some start life having parents either split up, divorced or who have died in an accident. This can have a dramatic affect in someone's early education. Some careers which are chosen, do not pay well as others but require a lot more work and effort to carry out. The only reason people don't live their dream of owning their own home is the greed of those that did well at school and exploit those who didn't. If there was a rule on the amount of houses one individual could own or charge rent for, then may be there might just be enough houses for other individuals to buy.

james1

Fed up that others enjoyed advantages you didn't ? Tough luck.

Do what others in your situation have done and work hard to afford things, not sit around moaning that taxpayers should provide for you for free what others have had to earn.

The State doesn't owe you a living, nor a place to live.

pauper

Try engaging the brain, we all pay tax in Jersey! I work as do others who cannot afford to buy, why? Because those with cash buy up properties at lower prices then add a poxy new kitchen and a lick of paint, then re-sell the property at an extortionate price. And don't refer to the State as owing me a living!

james1

You want the State to intervene to artificially affect the supply of, or demand for, houses, and this will be paid for by somebody else.

Why do you think the State should get involved in providing you with a house at below market cost ?

And why do you hate people who have cash, put in new kitchens or do a bit of painting ?

Engage brain indeed.

Gemma V

It's usually those that did poorly at school but are good at BS that exploit the rest. The toughest subjects you can study at school tend to lead onto careers that don't pay well at all except for a small number of people, and those careers rarely involve exploiting people. On the other hand it can be a tough upbringing that gives someone the BS they need to be a great salesperson or to set up their own business with their trade.

The main points that Zippy made stand, regardless of your upbringing. Not everyone with their own house has parents that could afford to help.

I've done without luxuries, my friend's spent their money on holidays abroad, getting drunk regularly... they're no more content with their life than I am with mine, and in the long term they will be less content because a lack of financial security can be very stressful.

pauper

Thank you Gemma for your point, I suppose at the end of the day there isn't really any magical cure for the housing problem. If one is in the right place at the right time with a steady reasonable income with a partner who has likewise, then there is a possibility of getting a foothold on the property ladder.

Hard Worker

Well said Zippy! Totally agree.

Sensible

This.

The thing with us British/Jersey is that we assume we have the right to own a home, we do not. What gets me is that people want a big enough house so can fit their family in...we so did I , thats why I waited until i could afford a 3 bed house before I started a family. Its the want now attitude which gets me, disgusting.

Alice

There is no news item here. Anyone who was trying to buy their first home in the 70s could tell you it is no different now than it was then.

I know. I was there, but by some incredible chance of good fortune I, my husband and daughter managed to buy a 2bed cottage using a states loan. We didn't expect the third bedroom, we knew we couldn't afford it because we were realistic which is more than young people are today

We were lucky and 40 years later I still haven't forgotten our good fortune

Why do we pay civil servants to tell us things that are the same as they were 40 years ago?

Koller

Alice, you can't compare the 70's to now. It was still possible to afford a house if you took the risk and wages just took you further. My father was a cook and getting more money in the 70's than someone in the same position now.

the thin wallet

my take home is the same as the eighties . yes i did overtime to bring it up to todays wage.

i real terms i get half of what the eighties money was worth to me .

no money left to go out or take a day trip.

you know enjoy life , as opposed to getting cash to to pay the neverending rise of the cost of living( existing) in my homeland .

NB

Rubbish.

The average price of a house was less than 4 times the average salary up until the late 80's. The same ratio today is over 14.

Things are certainly not the same as they were 40 years ago, not by a long shot.

Instead of spouting anecdotals that are factually incorrect and assuming 'young people' expect to walk into a 3 bedroom home do a bit of research and try looking at the figures.

One can only assume as you bought in the 70's you are enjoying all your 'profit' in the form of house price inflation and simply don't care to face the reality faced by todays younger working population.

EX-ISLANDER

We bought our house in Jersey in 1980.We struggled to find one we could "afford" and were on the verge of giving up and accepting that we would always rent (we had 2 children and family was complete)Most of the places we had viewed were grim and we wouldn't want anyway.A house we had quite liked(best of a bad bunch!) then came back on the market and we took the plunge.When I opened the letter and saw the monthly repayment figure in black and white I felt sick and feared we had made a massive mistake.We struggled for years-holidays,new car,new furniture etc etc were simply not on the agenda.The third bedroom was big enough only for a bed and tiny wardrobe but our second child had to make do with it-thankfully kids in those days didn't expect a TV,computer etc etc in their room in those days!!I do get quite annoyed when people think Jersey is expensive these days- it has always been the same.

Moses

@Ex-Islander, Jersey was not always expensive and you actually had a 3 bed WOW a dream for most these days. Fact is that you could work in a supermarket (struggle) and buy a 3 bed house then, not anymore. A couple, both working in normal jobs with 25.000 a year managing to save 1.500 a month for 5 years would have 90.000 deposit but still couldn't buy a 3 bed house. Jersey is way overpriced and a TV isn't a luxury these days (can buy it 2nd hand for 20 quid). Rental prices are too high, so even good savers struggle to actually save.

Who the f is alice?

Alice - Things are so different today than they were 30/40 years ago.

28 years ago, my parents bought a beautiful 4 bedroom house with a huge garden and garage for £40,000 on a states loan with just one parent working in an average paid job.

My partner and I both work and have medium to well paid jobs but we will never eb able to afford a house like the one my parents have as they are too overpriced. We would needa bout £750,000 today for a house like theirs.

Warren J

You are kinda right - and yes I was also there ! States Loans helped a lot of people back then, and there were genuine first time buyer properties being built.. also, once you got your mortgage, you got tax relief and your tax bill shrank. It does not now !

Tips for todays generation !

Don't rush to leave home / get pregnant etc

After A levels, get a job with training, and aim to get qualified / skilled by the age of 22/23. You will thus not have Uni debt and because you were working and studying, you will have savings.

Don't buy a new car

Don't go on extravigent holidays with your mates

Avoid toys which come with monthly rentals / subscriptions (Sky TV / Fancy phones)

Sorry top say this, but decisions taken in your late teens / early 20's really do impact on the rest of your life, an once you are in a 'relationship' with child and paying £1,200 p.m in rent, whilepaying off student debt and HP on a fancy car, you really do not stand a chance.

Gemma V

Brilliantly said Warren :-)

But no-one teaches kids this these days. Apparently now we are meant to tell them "you're only young once, enjoy it" and that of course means spending whatever they earn, IF they earn.

Why shouldn't they save the minute they start earning? The other option is that we give them some of our money to help them, but then no-one gave us money, we saved for ourselves. The minute you are earning SAVE, no matter what age you are. It's not boring or dull, it's a fact of life that no-one else should have to pay for your life when you earned enough to pay for it yourself but chose to waste the money on things that didn't last!

Sensible

Totally agree but some people of the older generation did get handouts i the form of states loans.

Richard

100% mortgages is the way forward to solve the problem, as is looking at a person's history of paying rent and for how long, to access their stability. An average couple do not have 70/80 thousand or more for deposits so banks need to change the way they look at mortgages. An average family rent for a house is 1300 to 2000 a month, which could be paying for ones own home instead of lining the pockets of greedy landlords. A couple with 2 kids in good jobs earning 30000 a year each can easily afford a 500000 mortgage and so can those on lesser income willing to take in lodgers. All this should be a factor in favour of giving a mortgage, and in other countries rental income is worth equity when giving mortgages. Even to rent a decent flat now days is at least 1000/1200 a month. Furthermore mortgages soon becomes equity and give a family future security. Houses never devalue, they only grow in value, however little!

Scrutineer

Oh dear, 100% mortgages! Not again. Prices drop: negative equity. Loose job: no cushion. Save a bit of money before having babies, then get a mortgage of 70% or so.

Mark G

I agree, the banks look at your credit rating which includes all your bills etc but no one takes in to account that in Jersey you are paying a top rent! People can pay £1000 plus a month, on time all the time, yet the banks do not take this into account when applying for a mortage.

Kommis

You must be joking Richard, 100% mortgages will never happen again and that's a good thing, why do you want to drive prices up even further???????? A couple earning 30.000 each should only be able to afford a house max 300.000 with a 10% deposit. If you can't save, buying isn't for you + you have to consider rising costs (lower wages after job loss) and your house might also need a new roof some day. Prices in Jersey are not realistic and once people need higher deposits (parents can't give:-) prices will tumble. I don't live on the Island anymore, bought a house with my partner in Ireland (during recession) and same story here (OK we have more space). People moan that they can't get loans but that's what started this mess in the first place. If you were clever and saved, you can grab amazing bargains and the mortgage is so low you don't even notice it.

Overpopulated

I think you will find 100% mortgages are the cause of the current over inflated housing market - what happens when one of the people loses their job - or they get divorced?

The reason banks require large deposits now is because houses are over valued and they already have many problem mortgages already for the reasons listed above

Robert

Not sure where you have been for the last 5 years but the current probelms stem from such a level of Bank lending and the assumption that houses only go up in value....you are either being ironic or have been living as a hermit for the last five years!

sporran

Is it really worse now?

Boat morning!

the wanted

Boat morning? You've said it that many times as your stock answer that now you've abbreviated it? So very very sad.

Are people like you really still around? At least your numbers are dwindling rapidly.

Perty

It's not sad, it is highly relevant to a small palce with too many incomers. B.M!

Joyl

What have incomers got to do with it, they don't really buy properties.

Reg

I am afraid that they do, Joy.

They also take employment, which lessens the opportunity for Jersey people to get the decent job that the service of a mortgage requires.

Pull the other one

"What have incomers got to do with it, they don’t really buy properties"

Seriously? All homeowners 1(1)(a) then?

You could be right, though. Don't J cats more or less get given houses?

egalitarian

Joyl.

I think you'll find that a significant proportion of lower priced properties are owned by people that are 'incomers'. Check around Cheapside and many of the less popular streets and see how many non-English speaking (as a first language) owners there are. You will be surprised,

Joyl

But if they can buy and live in the property they aren't really incomers, as they have qualifications. If your grandparents were British but you were born in Jersey you're also classified as a local.@Reg, how can they take employment when they actually gave employment in the first place. As far as I know, most companies are foreign or did I miss something????? I've heard of Royal Bank Of Scotland but not Royal Bank Of Jersey. It's easy to blame others but you had 10 years more time to buy then but didn't.

Reg

No, they are still incomers, I am afraid. The law to which you refer is an artificial and often abused construct. There is now too many over here, hence the problems which we see.

Susan

It is fair to say that people like Joyl don't see that there are too many people in the island, even though it is plainly obvious to most. It doesn't take much brain to realise that too many immigrants and too few jobs deos not make for a healthy state of affairs and that the housing crisis is a symptom of this.

Unfortunately, some people won't be told and will go on arguing that black is white.

Joyl

But you could argue that Jersey should be French, so we might all be foreigners:-) @Susan, you moan but probably work for a foreign company or maybe even your friends do? You can't complain about people who have lived in Jersey for years, because it's their home and their right. The immigrants you talk about don't take your job because you wouldn't do it anyway and each J Cat brings 5 new positions for locals. Figures show that more people are leaving the Island than arriving. You either stay and create jobs (be productive) or leave.

Susan

No, I am not moaning. I am making an observation. You seem to be too ignorant to see that.

You also don't know me, so you are in no position to say what work I do and what I would be prepared to do.

Each J category licence holder does not bring five local jobs. Please get your facts correct before making further comment or moaning yourself..

Reg

I am afraid that things are not as simple as you think, Joy. I laugh at your suggestion that one J category position creates five more jobs. I would suggest that the reverse is true.

By the time that they have parachuted friends and relatives into other jobs which are conveniently reclassified with the destructive J actegory label, it is far more likely that one J category job removes five others from Jersey people. It is like a creeping and noxious disease.

As we all know, the J category position is often abused in this way and in other. Most of the so-called "essential" jobs are not essential and could easily be filled by Jersey persons.

As for your suggestion that certain people should leave, I agree with you there, with the qualification that Jersey people should never be forced to leave their own island. As for the rest, well, any proper audit of the J category positions within the island would rightly leave to a lot of incomers being shown the door!

Joyl

I'm not moaning Susan, you people complain and complain but don't understand how the Island works. Unfortunately we don't have that many locals investing in big business or creating enough jobs for all locals. Jersey depends on foreign investment but a foreign company will only come if they have certain benefits and can find qualified staff. I agree that some J Cats shouldn't be given but then we have a lot of cases where people deserve a J Cat and don't get it. I've seen enough cases where locals lost their jobs, as companies couldn't find staff with 5 years residency. A 2nd language is often required and I'm afraid a lot of locals don't speak a 2nd language, so positions stay unfilled and company soon leaves.

C Le Verdic

Of course each J cat position creates more jobs.

They get straight on the phone to their mates and ex colleagues and say "Come on over, I can sort something out for you".

Susan

I'm not moaning, either, Joyl. You are the one who brought up the subject.

Unfortuately, you people complain and complain, as you still do within this forum, but don't have very much idea of how the island works, I am regret to say.

I have seen many J category positions abused and not all that many where it is actually a requisite.

Foreign investment will contuinue to come if immigration is properly regulated. Most other countries have such regulation in place and it does not prejudice foreign investment in the way that you wishfully suggest, I am afraid.

Kyle

William, Australia isn't Europe. Australians coming to Jersey would face the same problems as you going to Australia.

William

That point is interesting, Kyle, but is of no relevance to the argument that Australia has a strict immigration policy and that consideration should be given to adopting something similar here.

Thank you for your contribution, though.

Martin

The USA isn't Europe either but they too impose strict immigration controls. In fact, it seems that Jersey is in a minority in having no immigration controls whatsoever. We see the problems here with the housing crisis.

Paula

In a small place, there has to be some form of immigration control. The fact that there is not is utter madness.

It is little wonder that Jersey people are often pushed out of the job market and cannot afford houses in their own island.

There is a very good system in place in Australia. Among other things, a contracted essential employee is obliged to leave if the work expires or if they try and move to another job, as frequently occurs here.

Perhaps a steering group could look at drafting an immigration policy on these lines.

Miles

Again Australia, although you don't have a clue. Jersey isn't Australia.............. Australia is attractive due to it's climate, location (close to Asia) and Australians are happy to do simple jobs (the law protects the simple jobs). Skilled people move there because they have a great quality of life and it brings investment to the country. Beans created there own housing market and want great paid jobs that don't exist but don't want simple jobs either. If you have a problem, just start your own business

Lenny

The Australia thing will keep coming up because it is relevant and it presents a good model. It rather looks as though it may be you who has "not got a clue", Miles.

William

I would say that Miles is "miles" out! The point about Australia is that it is enormous and yet they still have strict controls, whereas we are tiny and we don't (yet).

As someone who lived in Australia for some time,I can testify to the fact that the strict controls do not deter those who have genuine skills to bring over.

Many such people come for a specific contract and then leave afterwards as they are obliged to do. They do not moan or shout about rights. They do not whinge as the English in particular are wont to do becuase they know that they would get short shrift.

They just accept the terms of their engagement. No arguments, no messing.

That is what we need here.

Jones

Yes Lenny, you really have a clue and have lived in many different countries. Australia is attractive because it has space, natural resources etc. so easier for investment. You can't compare Jersey to Australia as much as you wish. You're depressed and blame others.....

Lenny

Not at all. I would compare Australia with Jersey. I refer you to my earlier post and invite you to read it and consider it properly before making further misinformed and personal comment.

Thank you.

Servitude

Work visas are always a good idea where a place is infested with immigrants. In a small place, it would be a stroke of common sense.

Sandy

In a small island, there has to be some form of immigration control. The fact that there is not is utter madness.

It is little wonder that Jersey people are often pushed out of the job market and cannot afford houses in their own island.

There is a very good system in place in Australia. Among other things, a contracted essential employee is obliged to leave if the work expires or if they try and move to another job, as frequently occurs here.

Perhaps a steering group could look at drafting an immigration policy on these lines.

Blade

Dandara were brought to Jersey by ex Senator Frank Walker to provide “affordable” housing for the population. They have done nothing but push up prices and make a fortune out of Jersey. Lowering prices is the only way forward…. Strapping people up to 100% mortgages who can’t afford it is the beginning of the subprime collapse once again.

Why should the taxpayer who have saved there own deposits pay for someone else to have one!!!

Unbelievable!!

Lower the prices not increase mortgages to match the prices.

Carole, St Sav

It's a fine economic balance. There are various main reasons for people not being able to afford to buy a home. Zero hours contracts and imported cheap labour who will work as and when an employer tells them to have driven wages and conditions of service down undermining job security - banks will only lend to people with secure employment.

This is coupled with our politicians desperately attempting to keep property prices artificially inflated by reducing the qualifying period and other such meddling.

We don't stand a chance against our Ministers and their policies which have caused this mess!

james1

Brilliant. Lets have economic policies that destroy growth, breach EU employment legislation, hamper success, and reduce the demand for housing, so more people can afford houses.

That should work out fine. No other consequences to worry about.

pauper

Instead of chastising everything people suggest or say, why don't you suggest something more constructive or is that beyond your realm of thought.

james1

Ah, you want constructive. Try this.

1) Work

2) Go without things so you save

money

3) Buy House

In order to keep affording the payments on your house, keep chastising people who think it is a good idea for the government to take your so they get for free what you've had to work for.

james1

that should be 'take you taxes to give to others so they get for free what you've had to work for.

home owner

When I try to tell my three kids that to afford a House, My wife and I got up at 4 O´clock every morning to go to work, me shift work, wife had a cleaning job from 5 till 7 in morning came home to get kids up for school, took no holidays saved every penny for first eighteen years of marriage, kept car for at least ten years. They just can´t believe me, But moan about not being able to afford to buy house, but must have New phone every year or so, New, not second hand car every couple of years, a motor bike for a hobby Holidays every year, parties and the best clothes....

Giles

Well having 3 kids and a house wouldn't be possible now (with shift work and a cleaning job) LUCKY YOU. You wouldn't even have that in a management position these days, so get the facts right. A phone is not a luxury and they have to be sold to keep the economy going. I bet your grandparents said they couln't afford a car but you had one???????????

egalitarian

Of course a mobile phone is a luxury, especially if you can't afford to save the deposit for a house.

I don't have a mobile phone, have never had a mobile phone and do not intend getting one, so they can't be essential because if they were I could afford one. Before you say I'm a dinosaur, several of my friends don't possess one as we refuse to be brainwashed into getting one just because it seems everyone else has one.

Giles

No it isn't my friend. Almost 1 in 5 have a smartphone in Africa and what has a phone got to do with a house???????? A phone actually saves money as you can do everything with it, if used properly. I work for a business software company and people can run their shops in the middle of Africa with a simple phone. You can also buy a phone for a few cent, so not really luxury:-) I love people like you, I bet if your car broke down (if you drive) and somebody would lend you their phone you wouldn't take it.

Dumfone

'Almost 1 in 5 have a smartphone in Africa'

Only GSM or no coverage though, but a smartphone looks cool!

1 in 5 inhabitants or 1 in 5 phone toters?

Gemma V

Giles, he said that his wife cleaned from 5 till 7, then came home to get the kids up for school.

It is still possible today, and it is still possible even when both the parents are cleaners. That's with 3 kids too. When you see a family who are in exactly that situation you do wonder what others are spending all their money on. I'm not saying it's an aspirational life style, but the kids are well looked after and they have a good relationship with their parents, so it probably should be aspirational for some of the richer families. Of course if you're superficial, care about keeping up with the Jones's and how things 'look' then it's probably not the lifestyle for you.

Giles

@Gemma V, it isn't possible without getting benefits:-) if we're talking about a 3 bed house + 3 kids + car. Your salary (as a cleaner) wouldn't even get you the mortgage for a house these days in Jersey + the banks only take your true salary into account (no overtime) A good cleaner salary these days would be 18000 x 2 = 36000. 36000 x 4 = 144000 max they could borrow. Maybe they were states cleaners ( so very good job & rich) or had a massive deposit because they could live rent free for years. I recently bought a 4 bed house (outside Jersey) and can really save but it wouldn't be possible with a basic cleaner salary these days in Jersey, as your rent wouldn't allow you to save that much

George J

Yes, if they were saving £1.500 each month (unrealistic with 3 kids) for 15 years, they'd have £270.000 deposit which would allow them to get the loan for the house £414.000 purchase price. Welcome to 2012 Gemma V.

donald pond

the problem in Jersey is simple: the population has been allowed to grow, largely through immigration, without any thought to the consequences.

Those who worship at the altar of economic growth say we should build more houses. But long term, what does that do? Suck in unskilled labour that stays in Jersey. Irrevocably destroy the environment. Create the need for more schools, hospitals, civil servants. But that's good, because that means more economic growth. And so the cycle repeats.

And this continues until either the States run out of money or the Island runs out of land.

If we have economic growth it means prices rise and those at the bottom cannot afford to live. What we need is economic and population stability. And we try to improve the quality of life rather than simply chase targets that add no value.

You get what you vote for

It's not just the belief that having as many children, new cars, holidays, phones and giant tellies as money can buy is a basic human right, it's the ludicrous belief that every man and his dog should be found a place on the 'pwoppity ladda'.

Jersey people (and the incomers) need to get out more and observe that in the rest of the world you cut your cloth according to your cash.

By your electoral agreement, Jersey is run by the well off for the well off. They are more than happy to take rent from the less well off and still rely on getting political support. If you weren't all so indoctrinated with the views of your masters you could always vote them out!

We don't like unions, we don't like lefties? Finance is our great saviour? Fine. You made your beds, you lie in 'em. In overpriced rented accommodation, while the politicans laugh at you and count on your vote.

Mike

I agree in most parts, but I think that we may part company when you state in apparent satire that "we don't like lefties".

We don't like lefties, because, by and large, they like to dictate and to promulgate their "holier than thou" political correctness onto others.

There is also the small matter that left of centre regimes have been more totalitarian and given rise to more deaths than any other regime in recent history.

So, no, "we don't like lefties"!

You get what you vote for

I somehow don't see Southern emulating Stalin! I don't think Norman Le Brocq advocated mass slaughter either.

Anyone not moderately right is considered far left in Jersey. Hence my inclusion in the list.

Mike

Yes, quite. I wasn't really thinking about any particular local name.

The thing to remember is that left of centre politicians present as moderate when they seek power, but generally become more authoritarian and despotic as their power increases. That is why I sounded the note of caution.

I am not sure that I would agree with your interesting observation to the effect that anyone who is not moderately right is considered far left in Jersey.

Firstly, that sentiment could equally apply to the UK and probably many other developed economies too so it is not really a helpful local observation.

Secondly, Jersey politics is essentially central- most of the misinformed comment about Jeresy being overly right wing stems from a fixated association between right wing politics and high finance and also from the fact that many low brow commentators (yourself excluded) refer to Jersey politics as right wing because they disagree with what is going on but cannot articulate their dissent in a more intelligent and reasoned way.

Best wishes

Kermit

£330 a month per working couple will get you a 40k deposit in 5 years. It can be done... Just cut on luxuries ...

Scott

If we want the house prices to reduce the charges for buying and selling really needs to be looked in to...

Of the top of my head from when I sold and bought my property in Jersey.

The estate agent charges 2% of the sale price.

The Lawyers charge 1% of the sale price and 1.5% of the buying price.

The government charges 1% duty

The government charges £65 to register selling my property.

The bank required me to get a survey £65

The lawyers need to send off standard letters to the utility services £200

I sold a 1 bed flat and bought a 1 bed flat and in total i payed over £9,000.00 in charges.

When you are buying for the first time you have to have a 10% deposit which can be difficult and when you are selling and buying you have substantial charges which you may not have so it gets put on the sale price.

Estate agents and Lawyers should not be allowed to charge a percentage bill.

There should be a set price for any property for the standard checks that are done for every property the same and if you need extra services there should be a clearly defined price list.

By reducing the cost of selling by all the greedy estate agents and lawyers you will reduce the price of housing.

pauper

I agree with you about the cost of buying and selling, it can cost anything up to £18,000 during the buying and selling. What I don't like is during the buying process one needs to have a building survey undertaken of the property which you like to buy. However if there is a fault or your offer is out bid, you end up wasting money. I reckon a one off survey carried out by the estate agent who is selling the property on behalf of the vendor should pay for the survey to be done. We are selling our property at the moment and had to shop around for the right priced solicitor to represent us. Buying another property is a nightmare in the hands of the wrong estate agent.

Property Guru

Pauper, you state that "a one off survey carried out by the estate agent who is selling the property on behalf of the vendor" should be done. Well first of all I wouldn't trust an estate agent to run a tap let alone carry out a survey and as the agent only has one thing in mind, that is collecting his fee upon completion of the sale I simply wouldn't trust an agent to dislcose any potential problems either, least of all because most of them are not qualified to undertake surveys and secondly an agent is acting for the vendor as its the vendor who pays the agents fee not the buyer.

pauper

You have a fair point there, but it would be better if there could be a one off survey carried out by an independent company that would cover every ones viewing.

James1

Given your distaste for those who put a bit a bit of work into their property and sell it for a profit at 4.04 today, I hope you have wrecked yours and are selling it at a loss, otherwise that would make you look like a hypocrite.

pauper

Get a life N...Ty, you must work for the media with the sensational feedback you write, at no point did I state the word hate. I would love to exchange banter with you, but I have some snails to take for a walk. They have a better understanding of life

;-)

james1

All I can see from your contributions is your dislike of people who did well at school, people who fit kitchens in their properties, people who paint their properties and people who sell their properties for 'extortionate' prices (the're actually called 'market prices' by the way)

You said 'I work as do others who cannot afford to buy'

You then said 'We are selling our property at the moment'

So what is it ? Are you one of the oppressed who work hard and cannot afford to buy, or are you really one of those who bleat on behalf of others, but secretly benefit from the very things you are complaining about ?

If your level of banter is telling a 'N...Ty' (whatever that is) to get a life, insinuating that working in the media is wrong or that walking snails is a hobby, then I really couldn't compete with that.

If you think your views are important enough to share with everyone, don't get upset when people point out when you are wrong, misguided, or inconsistent.

Property Guru

26 Scott, you may have been charged 1% by a lawyer when you sold your property and 1% (not 1.5%) when you purchased but up until a few years ago these fees were set in stone by the Royal Court not the lawyer, however now scale fee is a thing of the past and you can shop around and get all sorts of deals. Even when there was scale fee you could do a deal whereby the lawyer would only charge a fee on either the sale or purchase but not both, so you obviously didn't shop around that much. The £200 cost of the search letters to which you refer is not charged by the lawyer, the lawyer simply writes to various utility companies/States Depts etc and the latter are the ones who charge the fees, the lawyer merely passes them on as a disbursement to the client. Its the States of Jersey who really make a killing as they collect Stamp Duty which is just another word for tax on every sale and mortgage that is passed in Court and its more then 1% today, in fact if you are buying for say £400K the States of Jersey will relieve you of £6K, so your figures are a few years out of date.

As for your comment about lawyers not being allowed to charge a percentage well as I have already explained they don't and you don't have to use an estate agent to sell your property you can do it yourself. However unless you know how conveyancing works in this Island you have no idea of the amount of paperwork that a lawyer has to trawl through in order to check the title to an average property, he not only has to check that the current owner actually owns the property but he also has to check every single property transaction of every owner of a property for at least the last 40 years or more and in many cases 100 years to make sure that all the clauses etc are contained in the deed that you are passing in Court. There is no such thing as a standard title check each property is different and unless you know how its done you are not in a position to comment!

Scott

Thank you for clearing up some of those points 'Property Guru'.

I know my figures were incorrect but was looking to raise the issue for discussion as nobody had previously mentioned it.

I am clearly no expert but do appreciate you taking the time to better explain the process.

coninSpector

Most of what you say is correct. However. you do not mention mark up cost passsed onto the clients by Lawyers for photocopies, phonecalls, scanned documents etc. when really the utility companies have already provided the information.

Zippy

I dont quite understand what you are saying here, what has photocopying etc to do with the utility searches ?

Anyway to clear up:-

1) If your lawyer is charging you for photocopying, scanning etc for conveyancing then change Lawyers because most do not.

2) If you are trying to say that the photocopying etc is purely related to the utility searches then you cannot be more wrong. You wouldn't believe the amount of paper that a "usual" conveyance will generate and most Lawyers do not charge you for seberal hundred sheets of paper it uses. You are very very misinformed, sorry

coninSpector

@Zippy

Actually I am not misinformed. If the Lawyer who employs you does not charge for photocopies etc. that is good. However, he/she is in the minority in the business of law.

Beaumont

No s*** sherlock!

After getting divorced, I couldn't afford to buy a new flat here, so I rented instead. 2 years later, I bought a property in Weymouth to rent out, followed by another in Poole. I'm still renting as I now resent paying the farcical prices in Jersey, when I own 2 lovely places in the UK for a fraction of the prices here.

s

yes but your UK res with higher income tax, capital gains tax and inheritance tax, good luck to you!!!

blade

Well said Zippy....

I wish I had written your blog myself...

Well done.

Gino Risoli

Very poor management of the economy from our government.

Darren

The esoteric and warholian irony of this is that the shibboleth of housing security of tenure is self-defeating in so far as the mere vassals of entrapment are directly refracted vis-a-vis the division of labour and the concomitant economic demands upon the banking system.

Overpopulated

and in plain English that means?

Darren

It means that the symbiotic nexus of the accomodation fora when juxtaposed against a banking background renders forth a personal arrangement created by way of hypotheque, a means which surpasses that of mere dead pledge.

Doh!

Darren, that's not a problem as I use my bike!

James Wiley

What he means is that if you take out a mortgage 'mort' being French for death and 'gage' meaning pledge.

Then you are voluntarily entering yourself into a form of slavery which benefits both the bank and the government who will be able to charge interest and tax you mercilessly for the rest of your life.

At the current time buying a house is about the worst investment you can make as property prices are falling, the UK is about to be downgraded from AAA status which means interest rates will rise and there are many who cannot afford their mortgages now, but with 7% or higher interest rates?

It will probably come when most of the fixed rates have expired and current mortgage owners no longer qualify for mortgages and so are stuck on the variable rate.

The banks will have wiped out all pensions by then with the current treasury bond bubble. (300 year highs in UK bonds currently).

This means there will be a lot of cheap housing available in the very near future at 'fire-sale' prices.

Buy gold and silver and await the arrival of the impending fiscal cliff, then when gold rockets and housing falls trade in some of your gold for housing and pay cash.

Buy a few houses and you can rent them out to the people who are currently invested in housing and are about to lose everything.

Darren

Quite so. The encapsulated hedgemony masquerades under a specious facade of proprietary rights.

evelyn

it is terrible what jersey has done to its own people

R. Williams

We now have a glut of properties that no one wants or can afford to buy. 50 or more years ago in the late 50's and early sixties, the number of properties advertised in the JEP were few and far between. Most available properties were snapped up before they reached the for sale adverts. Properties for rent always had a queue of prospective tenants.

Joker

Another way to keep prices up:

Help for first-time buyers to get on the property ladder has been confirmed by Jersey's Housing Minister.

Up to 100 islanders could be helped next year under a new States loan scheme.

First-time buyers will be offered an interest-free loan of up to 15% of a deposit on a property, as long as they've saved the other 5%.

It will mean families with an income of up to £75,000 would get £61,500 towards the cost of a three bedroom home not costing more than £410,000.

And single people on a below average wage would get more than £25,000 towards the cost of a one-bedroom flat.

The pilot scheme is one of a number of policies being developed to support home ownership.

Overpopulated

So what the States will be doing is lending tax payer's money to people who will have huge borrowing on an asset declining in price.

This is what set the credit crunch off in 2008 - what happens when they get divorced?

Warren J

And then we also had price control - That stiffled teh market to a point that people were handing money over, under the counter.

But since 1992, the market has decided, so now, hands off, no perks, no interest free deposit loans etc, just let market forces dictate. And if houses are in such short supply, why has my neighbours 3 bed semi been on the market for 9 months ?

James Wiley

Because he is asking an unrealistic price for it in the current market conditions. He will drop the price when he has to I guess when interest rates hit 7%, of course by then he will really have to drop the price.

PJK

Most of the current problems, and more to come are caused by one thing, uncontrolled immigration!

Sensible

Imigants!! even when peple sed it was the governments i new it was imigants...and der werse fing is wen dey comes ere dey dont even learns the languge

Harry 2

Well, if you give Jersey people a better life in their own island then the Jersey born skills might be more inclined to stay- they certainly won't do so if they can't buy a house in their own island.

Ex-Islander

Jersey's housing problems are entirely self made. It is in the interests of the local elite to limit the building of new housing stock in order to inflate prices. A stubborn refusal to build upwards in St Helier further compounds the problem and causes urban sprawl all the way from St Helier to St Brelade etc.

The silly Housing Law also pretends to protect the locals but actually makes the problem worse and allows the immoral exploitation of migrant workers who have to pay inflated rent for sub standard housing. Scrap the Housing Law, introduce work permits and build decent high rise apartments like Singapore or Hong Kong or just carry on with the way things are...

Moritz

But to be like Singapore you need skilled workers, can't find them in Jersey as they have a better life elsewhere.

Midvale

Plenty of local born skills here, thank you.

evelyn

yes there is but companys will not enploy because.? the know to much?

James Wiley

Because of the Employment law no one will employ anyone.

Alice

Koller said:

December 3, 2012 at 6:24 pm

Alice, you can’t compare the 70′s to now. It was still possible to afford a house...

You seem to have totally missed my point. Although property prices were so very much lower in the late 60s and early 70s THERE WAS HARDLY ANYTHING AFFORDABLE to buy. They were as rare as hen's teeth.

R. Williams who posted at 12.32 was around then and his memories are the same as mine.

The situation was then, just the same as today even though the sums involved are not.

I did say we were very lucky to get one - I believe there were over 200 young couples who wanted to see it.

Again I have to say - what's so different now?

Can't stop - have to go and top up my indoor swimming pool, get the horses in from the pastures, pay the gardeners and get the Dom Perignon out of the fridge! It's the only thing which goes with Beluga caviar.

Jean

You get it wrong, we live in the year 2012.

In your days wages increased quicker than cost of living, now it's the other way around.

Yes a basic TV was luxury then but isn't now. Mobile phones cost nothing to make, so not luxury. The new electronic car is too expensive now but will be affordable in 20 years. We were talking about houses and fact is that a simple worker in Jersey could buy if he saved, not now.

R B Bougourd

Cars have been electronic for some years now. Unfortunately overly so in recent years.

If you are talking about electric cars, they will be ok for short runs in Jersey but probably not too well suited to journeys involving climbing hills. Nevertheless, they are likely to be relatively more affordable than houses.

James Wiley

No in the 1970's we had hyper-inflation so wages and prices rose, now we have stagflation where wages stagnate and prices rise.

There is too much debt in the economy, too many people with mortgages they cannot afford except that the government is artificially maintaining low interest rates by printing money which will cause massive price inflation and an even bigger depression in due course.

The already bankrupt banks will be toppled.

Many people will go bankrupt, pensions and investments will be wiped out, house prices will fall.

In essence this is all part of the same economic cycle which was caused by the US moving off the gold standard.

China, Russia and/or Germany will soon put us back on a gold standard but the hegemonic power will shift from West to East and it will signal the end of Anglo-Saxon domination of the world after four or five hundred years.

The battle will be whether we will live as slaves under a tyrannical States of Jersey or whether we will throw off our oppressors.

I choose Liberty! I hope you will too when the time comes.

We live in very interesting times.