States reform meeting ends in farce

AN anti-immigrant tirade was launched at last night's Electoral Commission roadshow meeting in Grouville which came to an abrupt close after descending into farce.

The meeting descended into farce
The meeting descended into farce

AN anti-immigrant tirade was launched at last night's Electoral Commission roadshow meeting in Grouville which came to an abrupt close after descending into farce.

Bertram Bree told Electoral Commissioner Colin Storm that he would not listen to him as he was 'an immigrant' whereas his own family had been Island farmers for several generations.

He continued yelling over other parishioners who appeared shocked at the comments before Mr Storm, who was born in Jersey, told the man he was being intolerant before ending the meeting.

The heated meeting was also effectively hijacked at a number of points by two failed Senatorial candidates and St Helier residents, Nick Le Cornu and Gino Risoli, who gave long-winded speeches that led to several people walking out.

Comments for: "States reform meeting ends in farce"

Lord Haw Haw

Ah, the traditional Jerseyman - self righteous, right wing and with a vehement hatred of the immigrant.

KCSO

Couldn't have said it better.

Francis

He's the same as anyone who is proud of their country, it's not just the Jerseyman, it's anyone with backbone in their own abode.

Scrutineer

Come on. To accuse a member of the commission, who was born on the island, of being an immigrant was not only completley irrelevant but also technically incorrect. It is this kind of rant that gets local born people a bad name and leads to the jokes about in-breeding. It is almost an argument for the need for immmigration to do something about the gene pool.

In any case, less that 25% of islanders had all 4 grandparents born on the island (on the last stats I saw - probably less now), and I would be interested to know Mr Bree's definition of an immigrant. It seems that being born on the island is not enough. Does it require all 8 great grandparents (and how many would qualify as local then, eh? - not me).

Sensible

The guy was born in Jersey, calling him an immigrant is just stupid before its right wing....

Francis

Come on indeed! :)

George

And of course there is no hatred towards immigrants in the UK is there? You are self righteous making that generalist comment about all Jersey people.

I don't hate immigrants, I respect tthem for their hard work, integration and the culture mix they bring. However, I do dislike narrow minded idiots, and you fall into that particular demographic.

I'd take being a bean over a pompous idiot any day of the week.

Gavin Mc Nicol

Young Bertam is what I would call an " eccentric " and i would not take anything he says too seriously , trust me i know

Alexander Evans

A comment criticizing the traditional Jerseyman from a man writing under the moniker of an executed Nazi propagandist scumbag. Rich.

Gwasbach

Because of the Occupation I was born in the U.K. and never was accepted as a true Jerseyman.

Mind you there are many where I live now who dislike incommers. Its just small minded insular people.

Peter

No, I don't think so. It is people who are becoming more aware of the fact that they. together with their island, are being sailed down the river.

I have lived in various places throughout the world and have taken degrees from two univerities. I share the view expressed by Mr Bree, as do a great many others.

PROUDof birthplace

glaswegian, french, liverpudlian, yorkshire, portuguese, german, australian ARE ALL PROUD OF THEIR HERITAGE. why is it wrong for jerseymen to be?

Jim

"So I hear your a racist now father?, is this the offical line of the church as I won't have much time to be a racist with the farm and everything"

Boo

Ah Father Ted - Brilliant!

Chris

Right in many ways, as the "anti-racist" brainwashing is a form of new religion.

Its leftist missionaries trample culture in forcing the message home.

Loco

Looks like a good, varied spread of demographics represented in the audience there!

James

Oh the fair minded Jersey folk with their open arms to world cultures

not

btw i'll give it 8 comments before overpopulated gets a comment on this thread

ExJerseyMan

Come to my neck of the woods and spend a few minutes listening as the local populous refer to the immigrants as : "Fence jumpers" "Wetbacks", "Beaners", "Ragheads", "Terrorists" and more, I think you may then adjust your comment to reflect it as a global issue not just a Jersey thing.

Pop Le Verdic

'Come to my neck of the woods and spend a few minutes listening as the local populous (sic) refer to the immigrants as...'

Just how populous is the population in your neck of the woods? If the immigrants are more populous than the original populace they may not be very popular!

James

at the risk of being shallow and negative it is called being human - it is not down to nationality when bigotry, intolerance etc is discussed.

I do not view myself as being more important than any other nationality or person as at the end of the day we are all the same. I am not religious just a realist and I have yet to meet anyone who has been able to convince me otherwise

However this article relates to Jersey and it's natives - I am pretty sure it does not concern the outer hebrides, california etc.

In overall terms then yes it may be a larger issue but then other countries do not seem to have a problem with having non-locals working there - provided they do a job and do it professionally

Sarah

I think the difference is that these other countries (Australia springs to mind) impose strict controls and they don't tolerate those who go there taking the mickey out of the coutry or its people.

Other countries, France being a good example, are interesting for another reason. The French make sure that they look after their own, even when a citizen of another eu state tries to seek employment there. It is very difficult for a non-French person to get a job there.

It is clear that the problem here, evidenced by the simmering resentment which we now see, is that we do not look after our own. Furthermore, we do not seem to have any immigration control. That must be a most ill-advised state of affairs, particularly in a place so small.

Australia is thousands of times bigger, yet there is an exhaustive immigration procedure and in some cases, the immigrant has to pledge not to seek employment. Jersey needs to adopt a similar procedure.

Kermit

Sarah,

Immigration is everywhere.

French are fed up of the Africans immigrants. Not long ago they nearly had an right extremist (Mr Le Pen) going for president against Sarkozy.Now Le Pen s daughter is taking over.

Germany have too many Turks, American have Mexican, Thailand have Burmese, UK have Pakistanis and so on...

There were a time when immigrants were needed. Now there are not, you can't just dump them.

I am not local but I do think that there is too many immigrants on the rock. I kind of understand what the priest is saying, but it is well out of order coming out from a man of Church. That only re-enforced my opinion on religion,and talking without delivering put him up pretty much on the same level of the States . Why does he listen to Jesus anyway? : he wasn't even born here and he never left the middle east...

mallouin

Little geen frog,I tend to agree with Sarah here,the point of France as an example is that they generally make straightforward to become a French citizen but than you are expected to uphold your responsibilities as a French citizen,immigrants from wherever are expected to respect the French state.As to the dreadful Le Pen clan their share of the vote last time fell so not a good example.As I have stated before it's not immigrants per se that is the problem it's too many people.Oh and the constant sneering we are expected to put up with.

Sarah

Err, yes, Kermit... quite!

anon

That's Grouville for you.

Alan

Sorry but what is Nick Le Cornu and Gino Risoli doing there giving speeches anyway?

If they both come from town then just imagine if everybody started following this roadshow meeting around the Island, it really would turn into farce.

Dave

"The heated meeting was also effectively hijacked at a number of points by two failed Senatorial candidates and St Helier residents, Nick Le Cornu and Gino Risoli, who gave long-winded speeches that led to several people walking out."

Will these people EVER get the message????

mallouin

So you have a handful of people upset about change(it's called human nature) more evident in a parocial setting for obvious reasons and one idiot and yet 'it's typical Jersey','traditional Jersey'.Tosh and more tosh,you'll find similar situations all over the world in small communities.This is generally not racist it's about concern,fear and a general feeling of malaise about change which people feel they have no control over,again,human nature.It always saddens me that those that call Jersey racist don't realise the irony.I again ask the oft posited question,if you have such contempt for us why are you here?

Sensible

And yet being a farmer, the guy will only have employed locals? Oh, and of course he wont listen to his Dr if he were an immigrant either? The guy is an idiotic bigot.

Listen, all the Jersey folk I know (and I class them as Jersey if they were born here, regardless of generational longevity of their family) are far from racist, lazy, ignorant or any of the comments that are posted on here about them. They have been welcoming and friendly. However, if I have a gripe against the government, the laws, the way things are run as a tax payer for 12 years, having settled here I have as much right as anyone to do so. The "why are you here" argument is not conductive for a debate nor to help progression.

mallouin

Any gripes anyone may have against any government can and should be aired as often as possible,calling inhabitants of any place where one has settled insulting names would appear to me to be contemptuous of them but people think it's ok in Jersey,it's not.Oh and I called him an idiot because that's how I perceive him,I would not call him a bigot/racist because I don't know the gentleman.

Jane

Funny how some people who fail to get elected so many times still can't get the message!

Laughing immigrant

Did the germans really leave after the war? Or did they just hide in the surrounding parishes and change their names?

Michael

Your chosen name, together with the content of your post, shows why Mr Bree is entirely correct in his view.

Like Mahatma

Well said Mr Bree. He is a man of courage.

joker

People thought the same of Hitler

Joker Godwin's law

And indeed Ghandi.

Bob.

Dont knock the Jerseyman because of two fails and a third wantabe it is in a mess but agreed this should not happen.

Davey West

Mr Risoli is a nice man but does waffle on, Mr Le Cornu speaks from a much researched viewpoint as a man passionate about what is right for the ordinary worker person.

Now Mr Bree as a Jerseyman is interesting, and obviously loud. Could it be that he loves his island and is getting rather fed up the way it and its population are being managed rather than engaged ?

I think there is more anger bubbling just under the surface, than the States of Jersey realise.

Davey.

Mike

I think that the states do realise it, but they seem to be intent upon rubbing our noses in it.

The problem seems to have started when we began to pay them.

Time for a Change

The 2 people in question (Nick Le Cornu and Gino Risoli) keep on forgetting that they have both tried on a number of occasions to get elected but have been rejected by the ballet box every time. Perhaps it is time they asked themselves why?

Geeky Blogger

Because they are haters of the Establishment.

People voted in the last elections for those who proved they could do things and had the Island's needs at heart, hence Sir Philip Bailhache topped the poll with record votes. But explaining that to the likes of serial losing candidates such as Nick Le Cornu who with a minority thinks the Island is run by blogs is like talking to a brick wall. Even when the few do get in their ideas never merit any support. They are like one submission said recently, no opposition to the current Establishment.

Jsyboy

Mr Bree is clearly venting at the way this island has gone over the past 20 or so years. I understand his frustration. To call him a racist clearly misses the point. There is a boat in the morning as the old saying goes.

Nicholas

I don't think that he is a racist. For one thing, the person to whom he directed his comment is of the same race as we are, so it can't be that.

The word "racist" is a misused one and is not so much a word as a sort of verbal weapon which some would use in order to stifle free speech.

Sensible

Bingo! What do I win for the full house??

Rentokil

Mr Bree employ him to clear up unfettered immigration at least he has a backbone!! I would love to see how half of these cheeky immigrants would behave if they tried what they do here in say, Thailand or France., many would be in for a shock if they think Mr Bree is bad!

Totally behind him, nearly everyone is FED UP of bullies using that pathetic word racism when they can't get their own way or realise that their attitude and behaviour is bordering on taking the piss.

Generations of hard working local people who pay tax and social security to be told to be quiet get to the back of the queue ?! PISS OFF!!!!!

debatable

The correct term is xenophobic, which is equally as bad. Mr Bree and those who support his views are an embarrassment to the decent folk of Jersey.

Leader

I believe that we should be proud of the courage that Mr Bree has shown. He says what a great many of us are thinking.

He seems like a true man of the people.

Rentokil

Erm, not quite sure what is xenophobic about my take on things.. Are you telling me that its ok for elderly, disadvantaged and vulnerable local people to struggle even more and not get any help at all when the system is continually abused by many immigrants?

Please explain why that is xenophobic?!

debatable

Seriously?

Dave

On the contrary, I feel proud that someone was able to make the point. Indeed, he seems to have struck a chord with a great many people.

Reading the report in the JEP quite made my day.

Chris

Nick Le Cornu has attended every meeting so far and this is one spokesman who talks about having a democracy but puts it upon himself to meddle as much as possible to influence things to how 'he sees them' as written on his comical blog. It really is a joke because if there is nothing to fear then why go through all this trouble?

Sam

A few points to make here -

Firstly, good on the JEP for naming and shaming this guy. That sort of small minded bigotry should have no place in Jersey which should be an outgoing modern place with tolerant values.

But the end section of this article ruins it.

The fact Risoli and Le Cornu are failed Senatorial candidates is totally irrelevant. Why were they not listed as "local businessman" and "human rights campaigner" etc. This is just clear bias. In a democracy, everyone is allowed to express their opinions and whether they have lost an election before or not doesn't diminish that right at all. So the people here demeaning them for that just need to get over it.

For the JEP to use the word "hijack" is just astounding. I don't recall ever seeing them use that word when Sir Philip turned what was meant to be an independent commission into a partisan one. Or how about in St Peter where the Constable ran the meeting as if it were a Parish Assembly and was directing who was or wasn't allowed to speak and even gave his speech from the podium.

These meetings are not Parish Assemblies, they are Electoral Commissions meetings. It is therefore up to the chairperson to run the meeting and determine who can speak and stop someone who is not making a proper contribution.

The chairpersons have been letting people speak at multiple meetings, or people who don't live in the parish etc for the simple reason that the commission sees value in letting them speak. They want to hear arguments, thoughts and questions from all sides because it means they can make a better final report bearing it all in mind.

But to lump Gino Risoli and Nick Le Cornu together is just ridiculous. Gino (who is a nice guy, if very naive) goes to lots of meetings and hijacks them by going off on a tangent about "financial accountability" despite it being nothing to do with the meeting. At St Helier the vice-chair had to intervene to get him to shut up. Nick Le Cornu on the other hand always makes very interesting and intelligent remarks, with historical and legal backing to his arguments and is only ever chastised for going on for too long, not for the content of what he is saying.

Dave

"The fact Risoli and Le Cornu are failed Senatorial candidates is totally irrelevant."

This is massively relevant because its multiple times they have failed and if these people do not even come from the Parish then why are they there apart from an attempt to drown others with their weird politics?

Get real.

Paul

I wouldn't say that he has been "named and shamed". I would say that his courage has been celebrated.

If this chap were to stand for election, he would certainly have my vote and I imagine, a great deal of others as well. We need people like him with the courage of thgeir convictions and who are prepared to fight for their island, unlike some who I could mention.

Richard

The JEP rightly "named and shamed" the two people who keep seeeking election and who fail to do so. It is a pity that they have to keep on and on for years on end.

Mr Bree comes out of it rather well, in my opinion. Like most men of courage, he is not afraid to express a message that will almost inevitably be shouted down by leftist censors and thought police.

Sam

You know Winston Churchill failed to get elected as an MP in a couple of the elections he stood in? Was it a pity that he kept on trying for years after that?

Mr Bree called someone an immigrant when they are not one. You think he comes out well for being wrong? Mad!

Richard

Wow! So did Hitler. Are you saying that his persistence was a good thing? Mad!

Clanger

Fortunately Mr Bree's views and those of his fellow travellers are becoming irrelevant. Our last census indicated that the balance of Jersey born and non Jersey born residents is now about 50/50. 

If you subtract from the equation those who do not meet the specific racial requirements of having been in Jersey since the last great ice melt cut us off from France, then 'real' Jersey people are in a very small minority. Maybe they should get protected status like the Jersey Royal and for that matter the Jersey Cow, just be careful that like the cow we don't get problems with too small a gene pool!

mallouin

You know i'm starting to think he may have had a point,leaves with a wry smile.

coninSpector

Clanger

All the more reason why Mr Bree should be respected as an asset to Jerssy Heritage and a lifeline to Jersey's historic past.

Clanger

Quite right I see your point, which museum do you think we should put him in, Gorey Castle or The War Tunnels?

coninSpector

Clangerr

Gorey castle and the War Tunnels are an interesting link to the past. Mr. Bree has a line of ancestry in Jersey going back hundreds of years. I find that very interesting.

Roger

@ clanger- the second part of your post shows that you don't see the point at all!

Brandon Kent

Mr Bree was effectively wasting his time and energy by referring to Mr Storm as an "immigrant"; Colin Storm was born and bred on the island, so is a local person in my book.

Red Lion

Solely being born in Jersey does not necessarily make or automatically allow someone to be regarded as being native Jersey or a part of the Island's Norman culture - it's more about how many documented generations of one's family investment into the Island's culture and heritage that can be recalled and claimed - and I rather doubt that the rough cut of the 'Storm or Kent' jib could ever fit or weather such a proud vessel.

And while many on this forum like to deride and ridicule our unsophisticated parochial and provincial like traditions, allow me to remind everyone that history shows us that such traditions are and always have been the strongest weapon of defence against any and all forms of tyranny - including an imported electoral fix and upheaval that the current puppet commission is trying to stealthily pass off as something that we created and came up with - which it isn't - time for someone to wake up!

PJK

Nick Le Cornu is a qualified lawyer, a very intelligent man, his wife is an immigrant from Russia, a very clever lady also, Gino is not in the same class though, although he has done OK for himself as it happens.

I respect Mr. Bree, the way Jersey has developed over the years, like many others, has become too much for him, and the gasket blew, bless him!

Reg Langlois

Isn't about time that people that made comments used their real names.?

Cybil Wright

For what reason? So that people can accuse them of Self-promotion!

Miss Toppertunity

Ah, come on, Reg. you are missing out the fun and mystique.

You could sign yourself 'St Brelade Gardener' and everyone would be wondering who that could possibly be.

Clanger

So who is 'nearly everybody'? Nearly everyone in a phone box will be there to make a phone call but the most you will squeeze in there is two! When will people like you realise that you are a statistical minority and going the way of the ormer!

We those imported by Jersey to do the jobs that were either too complicated for the average Jersey man or actually beneath them, are here to stay and now in a majority.

You need to play nicely or you will be send to sit on the naughty step.

mallouin

I hope that's a poor attempt at humour! has no one told you that the empire is over,it's comments like that which make the anglo so beloved around the world.About time our colony to the north learnt its place.lol.

gino risoli

Sam,

and l like you too, with the greatest respect being a good orator does not mean you uderstand anything. I am 62 years of age and if anyone and l mean anyone wants to public debate with me, l am ready. You are at the beggining. You understand politics but very little of power and how it isheld. This electorial comission will do absolutely nothing for the people of Jersey what ever is decided,things could get worse. Once again accountability, transparency will make the old style of politics obsolete.

Evermore

A few interesting things in your reply Sam.

1- you defend the rights of everyone to express their opinion in a democracy, but not Mr Bree it seems because you personally happen to find his comments distateful.

2- you berate the jep for uing the term hijack, and then use the same expression in relation to mr risoli's behaviour at the st helier meeting

3-referring to the 2 gentlemen as failed senatorial canidates is factually correct and accurate.

4- you accuse mr bailhache of running a partisan electoral commission, and yet acknowledge that they have been hearing 'arguments, thoughts and questions from all sides because it mens they can make a better final report bearing it all in mind'.

Mahatma

I guess the paradox of his intolerance and his own bigotry towards this courageous speaker will elude him.

Barry Ver

Further to that, I’d also urge everyone to come to the public meetings scheduled for the next few weeks to air their views directly to the commission and make sure that the meetings aren’t dominated by the usual suspects as we see here or those with similar vested interests.

Sam

I'll try each point one by one if you like.

1. When did I ever say Mr Bree was not allowed to express his views? I never said that. He is allowed. And I'm allowed to say I think it's bile. We're all just expressing ourselves.

2. Yes, because one was hijacking, one wasn't. Turning up to a meeting with a thought out speech on the topic in question is not hijacking it. Turning up to a meeting to say something that is completely off topic is hijacking. Clear distinction. I think Mr Bree and Mr Risoli hijacked it but Mr Le Cornu did not because they were all there for very different reasons.

3. When did I claim it wasn't accurate? I said it wasn't relevant. You're throwing out a lot of straw men arguments in this. But it would have been equally factually accurate to have said "local businessman" and "local campaigner".

4. A partisan group is entirely capable of hearing views from all sides. Why would it not be? I call it partisan because it has 3 members who are set to either benefit or lose out from the reforms.

Marian

The clue may have been in the bit in the post above where you mentioned "bigotry" and you wishfully referred to the report as having named and shamed Mr Bree.

The "bigotry" angles is particularly interesting, because you fail to see your own shortcoming in that respect.

Simon

"Local businessman" and "local campaigner" is a decriptive, as is "failed Senatorial candidate".

"Persons from outside the parish with an axe to grind" would be another.

Each descriptive is accurate. None takes precedence over the other.

.

Point one of Sam's "response" above states:

"When did I ever say Mr Bree was not allowed to express his views? I never said that. He is allowed. And I’m allowed to say I think it’s bile. We’re all just expressing ourselves."

Yet, elsewhere, he writes of the same public speaker:

"Simply because I think bigoted views like those that this man was expressing need to be attacked as being unacceptable".

So much for freedom of speech, eh Sam?

Sam

Go check your dictionary. "Attacking" does not have the same meaning as "banning".

.

Well, that does provide some small comfort, thank you.

Bert

I'm not sure that I can see the difference, Sam. You would attack the right of another to express a view, but you would not ban it.

Might I kindly suggest that the reason why you would not ban it is because you have no power to do so?

It follows, therefore, that the only available avenue is to attack the speaker and the view that he expresses.

Do you wear a brown shirt, by any chance?

Evermore

You called him a bigot, and expressed satisfaction that he was 'exposed'. You also suggest that his views 'should have no place in jersey'. That pretty much tells us you would like to have silenced his views.

Hijacking needn't relate to the appropriateness of a viewpoint. It might relate to a person who took it upon themselves to comment at length at every single meeting, depriving others of the chance to make their own points. It is also demonstrative of you dictatorial style of politics that you feel you should be appointed the arbiter of 'relevance'.

It was relevant to refer to them as failed candidates as it helped people to judge the likely public support each might enjoy should they be put in a position to implement policy influenced by their views.

Nice to accuse me of straw man use when you so obviously chose to ignore your own quote highlighted in my comment that you thought the commission 'would make a better final report being it all in mind'. This strikes me as you arguing for their ability to act impartially, but maybe I'm a bit confused by your ability to seemingly criticise and praise in one sentence.

Sam

Again, none of those things you attribute to me were said by me.

Saying a view should have no place somewhere is not the same as calling for physical and legal silencing of people with views I disagree with. I've only ever called for bigoted views to be actively challenged in argument and you should have the decency to acknowledge that. I'd be very disheartened if there were many people in Jersey who disagreed with me and believed there was a place for racist views in Jersey.

I agree that hijacking could also be about the things you say it could. But, contrary to your silly accusation, I never appointed myself the arbiter of relevance. If you'd read my above comments you'd see that actually I said discretion should go to the chairperson (because that is sort of their job...). The chairpersons job is to keep the discussion on topic and make sure people are getting a fair say. At the meeting I was at in St Helier, both Gino and Nick gave very long speeches, but only Gino was told to shut up by the chairman because evidently he found at least some value in hearing Nick speak and none in hearing Gino.

As I've already pointed out, Churchill was a failed candidate on many occasions too. Very grateful that your view wasn't adopted to him! Being a failed candidate doesn't affect the legitimacy of a point at all. An argument either has merits or it doesn't. The person saying it and their personal history is irrelevant.

Look at point 4, I did acknowledge your quote, I just disagreed with you on it. Like all your other points, attributing something to me that is not the case.

Cool

It sounds like you are wriggling now, Sam. Hardly surprising when you begin to dictate and it backfires.

Note (as said above) that your Churchill argument is rather silly- like Churchill,Hitler tried unsuccessfully to be elected. I don't think that anyone, even you, would seek to argue that his persistence was a good thing.

Myrtle

We seem to have lapsed into sanctimony now, don't we Sam?

puffin

It looks like Mr Bertram is becoming frustrated with the disintegration of what was once a lovely island. There is now a quiet resentment bubbling away in a lot of local people, as Jersey is very rapidly turning into a European slum.

And please, to the uneducated people that are saying he is a racist, just look the word up in a dictionary before you use it!

COM-Mentator

The headline I would like to see is:

States Farce ends in Reform.

Never happen while ministers and public servants are unaccountable for their actions.

Delighted

I think that "States reform meeting ends with leader emerging" would be a more fitting recognition of Mr Bree's tremendous courage.

gino risoli

Sorry Sam,

Many are frustrated with the system which gives you an indication that something is not working. The government says it relies on evidence to make change, my point is why do they not allow the people of Jersey that evidence,particulary government spending.In Every state in America people know what state spends to the cent, for what and by who. Money is the common thread by which we all make decisions. Obama delivered this legislation which spread to every state, shortley after Obama became president. Now l have no real ambition to be in the states BUT without this game changer l know we will be here for a further two thousand years. AND get this, the executive in government will never allow accountability of this nature, the public must demand it. Put information on the table and people can speak freely. Now from this position we can all join in on a evidential basis free from hidden agenda.

Sam

Gino, that may well be very true, but how was it relevant to a meeting that was focusing on the composition of the States Assembly? The Electoral Commissions terms of reference was nothing to do with anything to do with States finances.

David

Unfortunately, the matter of economics affects all aspect of politics. Some do not understand this, however.

James

I'll speak freely. Organise your own meeting. Very naughty Gino, very naughty. I guess, to paraphrase Mitt Romney, there will always be a 0.0047% who will vote for you no matter what - but that's it.

Where you from A ?

So the boy Bree got the hump over his "new" Jersey 1st generation boy!

You cant compete with me a! ma boy.

Whats new? The Jersey person bleats on about being here since 1066,argues about his parking space,owns a Range Rover and moans about the Potuguese,Polish English scots etc.

The fact remains however,that its the Jersey people who "sold out" their own island,and ruined it with a government mirroring its own "narrow mindedness".A government is a representation of its people.

The old farmers sold Jersey for a fast buck,& now have to pay the price for their own greed.

These forums are a constant bickering pool for,"boat in the morning" comments,

anti Portuguese,Polish sentiment etc.

But at the end of the day it dosent matter if your an immigrant or not,or if your the victim of "small minded" bigotory,because theirs nothing! that can change the influx of immigration,so let the people from 1066 mentallity swallow that.

I welcome immigrants! a chance to meet some intelligent educated folk! who are not out to hate for hates sake like the local noggins!

Tim

Whatever. Mr Bree is still right and you know that deep down.

Where you from A ?

Er!No Tim!I think anyone with such narrow minded biggoted views is a sad loser! I think you know that deep down.

Tim

On the contrary. I feel that he is a man of courage. The true bigot here seems to be you, as evidenced by your intolerance.

Where you from A ?

So Tim the "genius" on here thinks its acceptable to tell a "JERSEYMAN" to go back where he came from? Errr Mr Storm is Jersey Tim! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!!

Tim,you really are a bit wooly!

you hide behind a computer spouting off,but clearly dont have the courage to use the same e-mail adress every time you spout off on here.

So narrow minded!

coninSpector

Where you from A

Mr. Bree is still more Jersey than Mr. Storm and that is a fact.

burgerdorf

Errr Mr Storm is Jersey Tim! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!!!

Born and schooled in Jersey then burgered off elsewhere for 40 years or so!

Tim

The fact of the matter is that you display an attitude of intolerance and bigotry toward the views of others.

If the broader message of what Mr Bree had to say eludes you, then you may well need to grow up somewhat and to do some serious thinking.

Paula

Mr Bree showed great courage. It has been noted that he may have made a mistake as to the content of his speech.

The fact remains, however, that the broader message that he put across (a message which seems to elude those who operate at a lower level) is something which is met with applause by many Jersey people.

coninSpector

Where you from A eh?

You too are guilty of the bigot card as you refer to Jersey folk as 'local noggins'. That is not a fair comment or rational mentality.

Where you from A ?

Regardless of whats fair,that is muy opinion,which is what this forum is for.

Its called freedom of speech!

Something else that they hate here.

Tim

The odd thing is though, you speak of freedowm of speech while, at the same time calling Mr Bree silly names just because he expressed his view.

Similarly, you are showing your intolerance here, because while you cite your right to express your own opinion, you appear to have some considerable difficulty with others expressing theirs.

I think that you know that deep down.

Where you from A ?

The odd thing is you Tim,for supporting bigotory & intolerence.

Are you a victim of your own narrow mindedness? There is no silly names been called. If you had any sense you would be able to read that in plain English,something that your quite obviously incapable of doing.

The fact remains that Mr Storm has been victimised by a narrow mined outburst.Perhaps Tim,your one of those people that cannot quite get it into your head,no matter how many times its spelt out.

What Mr Bree did was un called for,as Mr Storm is Jersey! I think you dont understand that!

Tim

No, but I remain of the belief that you are a victim of your own "narrow-mindedness".

You seem to express a rather intolerant and bigoted viewpoint-that much is evident by your failure to accept the right of the speaker to have spoken at the meeting. It is also evident in your failure to accept the views of others on this forum.

Furthermore, you refer to "they" when you state that someone does not like free speech. Whoever the "they" might be, I would beg to suggest that "they" may become visible if you stand in front of a mirror.

coninSpector

I dont know what all the fuss is about. Mr Bree expressed an opinion and Mr Storm could not stick the heat and left the kitchen. Mr Storm needs a crash course on dealing with all types of folk and opinions.

Any old port?

Did Colin storm out of the room?

coninSpector

Very much 'a storm in a teacup' so to speak. Trivial nonsense.

Mo

It's what is called "having a hissy fit" when a member of the public says something that you don't like.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of the quality of the panel.

Irony

It is quite telling that Mr Storm described Mr Bree as "intolerant" when, in fact, Mr Storm was himself being intolerant of Mr Bree and his observations at this public meeting.

Sam

Would be funny if it weren't so sad to see people queuing up to celebrate Mr Bree for calling someone an "immigrant" when he is not one. Nice one guys...

Ken

It would be less funny if others like yourself were less intolerant.

Harry

The fact that you make these comments Sam shows how out of touch with both local and broader politics you are.

Save it for the student union, please.

Red Lion

@Sam

Solely being born in Jersey does not necessarily make or automatically allow someone to be regarded as being native Jersey or a part of the Island's Norman culture - it's more about how many documented generations of family investment into the Island's culture and heritage that one may recall and claim. So I rather doubt that the rough cut of the 'Storm' jib could ever fit or weather such a proud vessel.

And while many on this forum like to deride and ridicule our unsophisticated parochial and provincial like traditions, allow me to remind everyone that history shows us that such traditions are and always have been the strongest weapon of defence against all forms of tyranny - including an electoral fix and upheaval from the outside, that the current puppet commission is trying to stealthily pass off as something that we created and came up with - which it isn't, so wake up!

And finally, while Mr. Bree may well have been partially wrong in his frustrated assessment of Mr. Storm's origins, he cannot be faulted for recognising the man as the paid facilitator for an alien agenda that is slithering into our political wood pile.

Wharro mon vier

Worriedaboutfreedom

Dearie me Sam. Not content with wanting to silence mr bree, now you want to silence mr risoli. What sort of politics are you espousing here ?

Free speech

I would suggest that that would be a brand of politics which is covertly sinister and which would prove to be particularly unpleasant, intolerant and altogether dictatorial were it ever to encounter the gift of power.

Worriedaboutfreedom

Thisisjersey contributors. Despite all the time and effort you have put into posting your replies on this subject, Sam now thinks your arguments are childish, and will now only tolerate you disagreeing with him if you give him your name.

Quite why the addition of your name makes your argument more relevant in his eyes is a bit of a mystery, but you can be sure that if 'uncle Sam' comes to power, having your name on record would enable you to be visited to be 're-educated'. But that shouldn't be a surprise for somebody who already likes to address his readers as 'Comrades'.

Door knocking

You can't win on that one. He knows Mr Bree's name but he still wants to shout him down!

Reg

He needs to know your name so that he can "name and shame" if your views don't coincide with his.

David Rotherham

While it is better that people can express themselves under a nom-de-plume, or perhaps nom-de-clef to be pedantic, than be silent altogether, those of us who are proud to take responsibility for what we write are obliged to say what we mean and mean what we say. Those of you who must create a fictional author for your words can just as easily give him fictional views too, so why should we take you seriously? I can put a face to Sam, and could tell him if he said something I took great exception to. But you could be anybody, and maybe not even sincere in your opinions.

Fu Manchu

Wise man say- he with no name is like sock caught in storm.

Bill

Good for Mr Bree. He gave his name and stood up to be counted. He showed great courage.

Rate my rights dot com

The thing is, those involved with the "rights industry" often think about the rights of those whose views they agree with.

Woe betide you (or your "rights") if your views do not coincide with the holier than thous....

You need to be "right on" in order to have any "rights"!

Gino Risoli

Sam,

It had nothing to do with electoral reform. Electoral reform is simply white noise. Politicians get paid for looking good, sounds good but meaningless.

Gino Risoli

Sam,

if you like that game feel free to join in, it may be fun for you. I find it boring like most political conversation.

James

I see in a letter to the JEP today that one speaker said that Deputies should live in the area they stand in. That was at the meeting in Grouville and put forward by a certain Mr Risoli....of St Helier.

Why did you go there in the first place Gino? Not keen on practising what you preach?

Turkey for Reform

Further to that, Nick Le Cornu advocates the removal of the constables from the states, yet he himself stood for constable in St Brelade.