Ministers ‘must prepare for Jersey independence’

MINISTERS must prepare for independence from the UK as the constitutional relationship between the two jurisdictions worsens, according to former Bailiff Sir Philip Bailhache.

MINISTERS must prepare for independence from the UK as the constitutional relationship between the two jurisdictions worsens, according to former Bailiff Sir Philip Bailhache.

In the latest edition of the Jersey and Guernsey Law Review, Sir Philip writes that Islanders are increasingly being treated as ‘not quite British’ and that ministers should start preparing for the worst so that they are not caught out if the relationship breaks down completely.

And he criticises ministers for ignoring a two-year-old report recommending that research and preparation for independence be carried out.

In the article, entitled ‘One or two steps from sovereignty’, Sir Philip cites the UK’s refusal to allow the States of Jersey Police to import Tasers, the lack of consultation over border control plans dropped last year and the three-year delay of a 1998 finance bill to be passed on to the Privy Council as examples of the changing relationship.

• A full report is published in today's Jersey Evening Post

Comments for: "Ministers ‘must prepare for Jersey independence’"

Sanity

Once the new cycle helmet law comes in the police will require tasers to stop youngsters who are riding their bikes without helmets.

Alvin

We should fight for our independance now and tell the UK to take a running jump. So what if we are a tax haven? So what if we have different laws and customs? Britian is for the British and Jersey is for us Beans. I would also like to see non Jersey people scrutinised before coming here to work.

Ivor Biggin

"Sir Philip cites the UK’s refusal to allow the States of Jersey Police to import Tasers"

Oh my goodness....... I did not realise that the police were in danger of being shot at or stabbed on the mean streets of St. Helier. You can just imagine it can't you.......

You only need Google to find report after report as well as footage of officers in various forces using Tasers in situations that at one point a seasoned and level headed officer would have controlled by words. The danger with non-lethal weapons such as these is that the officer in 'control' can at times be all to ready to deploy it...... and at times with tragic results.

Why on earth do the States of Jersey Police need Tasers on this fair Isle?

What say you.

John Smith

Don't often find myself agreeing with Philip Bailhache, but being a British National and being charged three times the rate for an Open University course because I choose to live here does annoy me.

Why is this one way traffic, we are told me most comply with airport fencing arrangements and other rules and regs when it suits them.

If we are still making a contribution to defence prephaps this should be re-evaluated if we are not british enough, and the BBC TV license Tax should be cancelled forth with as a tax that only applies to true British People

Rico

I am fully supportive of Sir Philip. He is right yet again, independence is the key. I would say he was the best Bailiff we ever had and its a shame we cannot have him back.

Ivor Biggin

#3

"Britian is for the British and Jersey is for us Beans. I would also like to see non Jersey people scrutinised before coming here to work"

WoW...... didn't realise your kind still existed. I seem to remember a German with idiology of that ilk once................

martin

A fully independant Jersey would be a disaster for the average local person.Even under the current arrangements we are lurching from crisis to crisis...no transparency, no checks and balances, no honesty in government. We should be looking to 'get on' with our neighbours in an ever more dangerous world. TASERS on our lovely island....you can see where this is all going.

mick

As he is the FORMER Bailiff i think he should keep his thoughts to him self he had his chance

Euan Mee

Ivor Biggin @4: Fortunately, the police in Jersey live on our planet, not yours. They deal with violence on a daily basis, mostly completely unreported. The Taser is simply an effective tool in the armoury and might be better than the next step, which is shooting someone. I have dealt with mentally ill people waving samurai swords, drunks holding babies off balconies, and domestics where women and children are held with knives to their throats, all in Jersey. If a relative of yours is in such a situation, you wouldn't want a Taser used would you? If your relation was the aggressor, you'd prefer them shot dead? Of course you would...

Matt

I would argue that we already are 95% independent. Everything we have is unique to us, tax, laws, way of life so just because we cant have Tasers, is it really that important?

Tess

I hope this will never happen. What is he worried about????

Flymo

Hmmm, breaking ties with the UK would certainly be convienient for some.... no one being able to look over our shoulders to see that things are being done correctly.

So if Jersey (just us or the other islands as well?) were to declare UDI we would end up in a fiefdom. No political parties, no one able to politically contest contentious issues and a Bailiff in charge of the courts and the States.

Nice little fiefdom to do what you will.

And to use the issue of tasers as one of the excuses is pretty poor show.

Julie Garcia

I agree with Rico, Sir Philip always had his head screwed on and if he warns of a breakdown with the UK he is probably right. I miss his excellent Liberation Day speeches he was always accurate and a worthy Bailiff to represent Jersey. Thank you once again Sir Philip.

Dave

It would be very convenient for the Ruling elite to have a free hand in the running of Jersey. Independence will come at a cost. What are the implications for defence, health care, higher education and entitlement to residence in the uk?

Quentin Smythe

Being local myself, I realise it probably is time to call time on our silly little games. We've had it good for so long perhaps we should go it alone after all ......we could set our own interest rates, have our own bank, form an airforce, a navy and an army. We could build hospitals universities, we could have a president ...or our own queen (chosen at the BoF). Life would be bliss. Ok! things might get a bit pricey and our currency would be pegged to .....the potato? One potato two potato.....

Mogit

As usual comments about thirty years too late!!!

Aukward

#9 Mick as FORMER Bailiff etc

Couldn't agree more, the old legal adage ' The wisdom of a silent judge is never questioned ' is clearly a judgement he missed.

Leah Holmes

"Islanders are increasingly being treated as ‘not quite British’"

Odd, you can move there when you want, apply for any job you want, buy the house you want... same as any other Brit. Jersey's not even reaping what it's sown, yet? Maybe one day it will pay for not treating other Brits as equals.

"I would also like to see non Jersey people scrutinised before coming here to work. " You're having a laugh, Jersey has restrictions coming out its ears. What happens to you if you move to the UK? Nothing at all.

Maybe the comments were intentional, maybe he wants a mass exodus of Jersey people to the UK.

gross misconduct

To show how committed he is to severing links with the UK he should lead by example, relinquish his knighthood and go back to being plain old Philip Bailhache.

Harry

Sir Philip decries the decline in the entente cordial between Whitehall and Jersey and as an example sites the removal of the reciprocal health agreement. Silly me, I thought we lost that agreement because we conned the U.K out of millions!!

and would Whitehall want to enable our police to have Tasers? this is a force that is quite happy to break the law to secure a conviciton and quite happy to mount a search of individuals home on a very flimsy legal premise - I personally don't think our police are ready for Tasers.

Harry

Recent events have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that this islands lacks any real leadership. Until this situation changes - independence will never happen - thank God!

Some of our politicians would struggle to run a bath let alone and independent state.

Concerned says

I strongly disagree with the former Bailiff on this matter.

I think independence would be a catastrophic disaster for Jersey and her people.

Pip Clement

He conveniently ignores the real issues.

If the island was independent, how would we guarantee or maintain an independent currency or would we continue on the pound sterling guaranteed by the UK or move to the Euro?

All the other European micro states eg Andorra, Monaco, Vatican City are heavily influenced by the larger states that border or surround them, how would we achieve 'independence'.

The island's finance industry is heavily dependent on UK and the city of London. Would that relationship continue if the island became independent?

Travel arrangements and if Jersey police have tasers or not does not matter at all against weighty issues like this that would determine the entire economic future of the island!

Independence maybe, but the above questions and many others have to be addressed first.

Sam

As someone born and raised in the island, let me be the first to say, if Jersey becomes independent I will hand in my passport, pack my bags, and move to the UK.

I am British, and you will never ever take that away from me.

Bondit

People are missing the point about Tasers. It is not a question of whether or not the police should be so equipped but whether or not the UK should be controlling the Jersey police force.

I agree with Philip Bailhache (maybe relinquishing his knighthood would be a good symbolic act, no one will think any less of him without the handle on his name) as Jersey's independence has gradually been eroded over the years by both Jersey and UK. But all the Channel Islands should act together.

People who say things like 'you can go and buy a house in UK' should remember that you can also go and buy a house in France and other European countries, not just the UK. Small countries can bring democracy closer to home, and Jersey's independence needs re-affirming. UK has been playing fast and loose for years with the Channel Islands. Tony Bliar unilaterally moved the responsibility from Home Office to Lord Chancellor for no clear reason - except of course Derry Irvine, the LC, was a senior member of his barrister chambers, who could be expected to do his bidding. Those two managed to prevent House of Lords reform - they threw out the hereditary peers, but then blocked elected replacements. Such shenanigans do not bode well for Jersey, so let's cut loose if we can.

Phil

If we can’t run the islands economy correctly without the support of the UK what on earth changes if we try and run the island without that support?

The fact of the matter is that the UK would probably prefer Jersey to be independent, and then wait until the Island is bankrupt to buy it back, a position they can force through pressure on Offshore Financial Services, but perhaps however the true plan of the former Bailiff is really to have an auction and see if France would want to bid as well?

got out whilei could

Jersey Independent? for whom? The man in the street? I don´t think so,I have always said. You people in Jersey " Live in cloud cuckoo land"

I see trouble ahead.

Tony

Ivor #7

In actual fact he was Austrian - not exactly one of their best exports and one they have quite successfully "forgotton"

Stan Still

I am with Gross Misconduct.

Show us how well you are preparing for independance and hand back your knighthood Philip.

Born Warrior

Quentin Smythe 17.

Dear Sir,

I would like to apply for the post as 'Monarch'. I believe I am the right candidate for this High office in your 'Société nouveau', as I have a posh accent, I can ride a horse and I also look good in hats...

gross misconduct 21. 2010

I couldn't agree more!

Leah Holmes 20.

"Go get'em Leah!"

What the

Tazers - a bit over the top. But with tazers used, those criminals how have felt the force of it just respond back with further violence in future - guns.

And as for the british thing,I've always considered myself more french than british

Ivor Arthur Brain

Euan Mee # 10. I am not sure the police would want to use a Taser, if a drunk was holding baby off a balcony as there may be 'an unintended occurrence with an adverse physical effect'.

Just two questions for Sir Phillip. If Jersey became independent, would it remain in the Commonwealth? Also would he retain his knighthood?

Neil

I have to say that Sir Philip could be right yet again here. Looking back at Sir Philip’s excellent career in the States it is apparent that he did foresee events with a level of accuracy. His Liberation Day Speech in 2008 was very accurate when it came to the ridiculous media assault after the Haut de la Garenne fiasco and it also highlighted the speed in which the UK media would descend on Jersey with unfounded negativity triggered by a single minded over zealous Police officer. Also look at the way some of the so called ‘liberals’ in the UK have accepted a wayward politician from Jersey because they just want more control over our people. None of these people respect us as a professional run offshore finance centre but more of a backdoor tax haven which supports money laundering and this is when we have some of the tightest legislation in the world. If we are being shunned by the UK like this then Jersey people have to ask do we need the UK? Sir Philip is right maybe it really is time to go in our own direction but then again, perhaps...... Just hang in there to see if the good old Tories get in later in the year!

Richard Kimble

Go for it Sir Phil you have my support on this one!

Brands

During Sir Philip's Liberation Day speech, he pointed out that Jersey owed loyalty to the Duke of Normandy and not to Britain and the British.

Given the variety of opinions expressed in this forum, it's obvious that Sir Philip was not speaking for all islanders, myself included.

If Jersey were to separate from the UK totally, it would cease to be a UK dependency and would become an independent nation-state; a micro state similar to others in western Europe (such as Andorra, San Marino, etc) and heavily dependent on offshore finance for its economic well-being.

The real danger is that the UK, EU and the US may legally terminate all financial dealings with such territories. If this were to happen, an independent - and vulnerable - Jersey would effectively collapse because tourism and agriculture only make up about a third of the island's budget.

Roger Mark Wayne

I believe that it is right that Jersey should now claim independance that is long overdue from the mainland UK. It is right that the Staes Police should have the equiptment allowing them to protect not only themselves but the public in the occaissional difficult situations that do occurr.

The States Police I would say are more likely to show a greater tolerance in certain issues before they would deem it neccessary to use for instance a taser or cs gas. Lets not forget that the British government has shown itself to be recklass and dishonest for many years now and the association between Jersey and the British government can only cause harm to the Island.

Thom Hobbes

I think the UK would be very pleased if Jersey and Guernsey went fully independent. I'm sure there's a lot of things where they are still subsidising heavily what are, on average per capita income, very affluent islands.

Also have Jersey people thought what life would be like outside the EU Tariff wall (which we are currently inside due to that Protocol exemption)? Wouldn't that cause a big uplift in the cost of imports?

ben

Fine, off you go.

Is the sentiment of many here in the UK who even care two hoots.

livioja

Perfect, with indipendance the Island could return hanging, for any offence!

Jean the Bean

Do it now he who hesitates hang on a mo where will we get our next chief of police from France? We could end up with superintendent Jacques Clouseau

Alex

#16 Dave "What are the implications for defence, health care, higher education and entitlement to residence in the uk?"

Defence, last time needed 1940, to my knowledge not a single shot fired by UK in defence of Jersey. Many countries in the world with larger populations than Jersey do not have any military defence.

Health care, agreement ended last year. To my understanding the States of Jersey pay for medical treatment of Islanders when they are sent to UK.

Higher education, I did not go to Uni but I understand that most Jersey students pay for this in the UK, as do thousands of students from around the world studying in UK unis.

Entitlement to residence in the UK, there are hundreds of thousands of people living in the UK who are not British, I don't see any reason why people from an Independent Jersey would have any more difficulty in getting into UK.

Alex

#21 gross misconduct

There a people with Knighthoods in independent countries throughout the world, it is a honour bestowed by the Queen no the UK government.

The Queen could remain the head of state of an independent Jersey just as she is in Canada, Australia etc etc.

Marx

I'd imagine that the elected ministers know a lot more about the relationship between the UK and Jersey then you do, because they are the ones that manage it on a day to day basis, you on the other hand, DONT.

They ignored your warning two years ago clearly because they knew it was a load of rubbish.

alexa

Would people in Jersey still be British if Jersey was independent?

truthseeker

The desire for Tasers is wrong,my bet is they want them to use on the local population who are becoming increasingly restless about our various losses of freedoms and insidiously creeping beaurocracy,as we are being led more and more toward a totalitarian police state,in line with the whole European mess,which to this day has been unable to balance their books or produce proper accounts,ie tax payers money dissapears into all sorts of scams.The civil servants get richer and sense becomes as rare as rocking horse pooh.

5pudp1ck3r

If we became independent, would it mean the States would re-introduce the sodomy laws??

Born Warrior

Alexa 46.

No Alexa, people in Jersey would be 'Jerseyish'!

And there would be a new currency that absolutely NO-ONE would trust, so the big companies and the 'extremely rich' would move their money to much safer shores...thus the people of Jersey would not only be 'Jerseyish', but they would also become 'poorish' overnight...great idea Milord!

deputy dog

Jersey will never know what identity it wants,it,s such a confused place!!??

Love grossmisconducts comment on Phillip giving up his knighthood..bet he never thought of that before he opened his mouth!

Canada and Australia don,t want the Queen as head of state any more.

Also what happens in the event of a take over or invasion from another country. We have no army apart from the salvation or rely on the girl guides, brownies and scouts as defence.

Major Pierson

Who is this man? He has no public mandate to talk for me, Jersey or it's people! As a Jerseyman, I'll fight tooth and nail to retain Jersey's 800 year old heritage. Just because he and many like him on this ilsand are frightened of being accountable to a superior power!

How dare he!!

Darren

I'm with Sam #25 - people like Alvin #3 are a perfect example of the insular attitudes independence would bring. I was born here, but I'd pack my bags straight away.

another phil

No to independence from the uk. Jersey people generally are dead against it. It's a non-starter.

No to tasers.

Pay back the uk government what we owe them for health care and renegotiate a new reciprocal health agreement.

Renegotiate university fees.

PB is entitled to his opinion, but that is all it is. It is a minority opinion and his opinion is not any more valid then anyone else. The man in the street has nothing to gain and a lot to lose. The man in the street says "no".

bella

#46

Couldn'T agree more.

Giving more and more powers to these control freaks that are the EU is on a non-stop slippery slope.

Under the guise of the nanny state they can and do tell us how to run our lives,what to eat and what not to eat is now beyond a joke.

Jersey tends to copy all these new laws from UK via the EU.

They will continue to ban this that and the other in the name of health.They will continue with stealth taxes by any means they deem fit.

They will continue to make criminals of decent law-abiding citizens for petty "crimes" like dropping litter or miner car offences while the real criminals get community service if they assault or burgle people.

Unless there is a revolution in the UK They will continue controlling and dictating every aspect of our lives.

Going independent would be one way for jersey to go it alone without all this interference of the UK and the EU,but I can,t see this happening.

Leah Holmes

"Lets not forget that the British government has shown itself to be recklass and dishonest for many years now " I doubt anyone can disagree but it's hardly a reason for independence, unless you honestly believe the States have been wonderfully cautious and honest that whole time?

Andy

At last we can cut loose from one of the most hypocritical and feckless countries in Northern Europe!

Nick

In my opinion the posted comments against Sir Philip are missing the point. It is obvious that the Labour Party are not in the least friendly (and never have been)towards us and quite frankly would like to bury us even though we have met all the requirements that have been forced on us. If the current trend continues we may have very little choice in the matter and Sir Philip is pointing this out and telling us we should be prepared. Remember that our allegiance is to the Crown (the Duke of Normandy) and not any U.K.political party. We have an excellent standard of living and despite the complaints that the cost of living here is high it must be accepted that everything has to be freighted in and that costs money. I have cousins living in Vancouver Island and costs there are also much higher than the Canadian mainland for the very same reason. It is also accepted that some of our politicians make errors but who among us do not. Could any of those who are vocal in these matters do any better? If so, stand for election and show the rest of us how it should be done.

Gutted

One of the biggest mistakes that the island could do in my opinion. It reminds me of the day of the trifids. One guy in charge making all the decisions, and if you disagree he'll feed you to the . . erm . . Gorillas at the zoo. . . sorry. . .Durrell centre thing.

What's the island gonna do without the UK. It gets all the food from there! Everyone slags off manchester, have you read the back of the Waitrose food packets? It's all made in Manchester!

Bad move. REALLY BAD MOVE!

What next? Kick everyone off the island who has less that 500k in their bank? The only people left would be the government and the benefit bums!

In reality, the UK couldn't give a damn about what Jersey does. It's full of beans that cannot accept that the world is round, not flat and that life does continue when they go to sleep. Bout time that all the jersey beans accept that they aint better than anyone else!

Born Warrior

Nick 56.

Re your comment: "It is also accepted that some of our politicians make errors but who among us do not."

The main difference between those among us who make errors and politicians who make errors, is that the politician's errors affect the entire community and not just his/her own personal sphere...big difference.

Re your comment: "Could any of those who are vocal in these matters do any better? If so, stand for election and show the rest of us how it should be done."

That comment (straight out of the politicians' handbook, under the caption "Turning the tables") is used by all 'establishment defenders' when faced with arguments they cannot counter.

Gutted

I bet some of you went and read the back of your food packets didn't ya? lol

gross misconduct

So Jersey goes independent and has its own currency...mmm what should we call it....I suggest the ozouf.....now then how many ozoufs to the pound?

Flymo

#37 Roger Mark Wayne

Err, um ,,, so the chap who was pictured in the JEP having CS spray squirted in his face, whilst on the phone, by a copper was due to the UK having overall control over Jersey? oh, .... OK then.

46 Truthseeker - spot on ... again.

BS Deluxe

48 Born Warrior

Not entirely true me thinks.

Cayman has it's own currency and still survives as an offshore centre....as does Bermuda.

Our banks will still hold currencies even if GBP becomes a foreign one to us.

It would be interesting to see what the exchange rate would be given the state of GBP right now......perhaps we will get more for our Jersey pounds ?? :-)

BS Deluxe

Deputy Dog.....

Why would anyone wish to invade these shores.....apart from maybe Guernsey :-)

Maybe we would be off better distancing ourselves from prime terrorist targets such as UK?

BS Deluxe

Personally I feel independence would be a disaster.

I agree with other posters in that this present government are useless. They are untrustworthy, ignorant and greedy.

I would hate to be under full control of these imbeciles, making even bigger mistakes, bigger jokes of Jersey and costing us even more to live here.......I dread the thought.

I am local, but would leave immediately. I am British and I love and appreciate the privileges I receive globally for having a British passport.

BS Deluxe

58 Born Warrior

....plus those that have been elected to serve the public forget this fact, "turn the tables", and think that the public actually serves them !!

That is the real problem.

Leah Holmes

#56 Nick, of course they're not, but then who can blame them when Jersey stole from them? When it comes to politics money talks almost as much in the UK as it does in Jersey, stealing from the UK was automatically going to make enemies of them... the Tories would have reacted the same way.

I'm not saying that a massive public apology, and paying back the money, would end the matter but it would at least be a start. There is possibly more democracy in the UK than there is in Jersey and the theft did not go down well with the electorate.

Ozzy

I was born in Jersey; my parents ran a successful business in Jersey in the 60's and then immigrated to Australia. I have been back a few times and love the Island and its people. I have served the Commonwealth in the armed forces and am now a fire fighter in NSW. Do I qualify for any right to live in my country of birth, to rent or buy a property in my country of birth or am I still an outcast from my country of birth?

This gets more interesting when you think about another article in this paper - Ministers ‘must prepare for Jersey independence’. What will happen then?

Born Warrior

BS Deluxe 62.

Not entirely wrong methinks! ;)

The Bermuda dollar is pegged to the universally-accepted US dollar on a 1-to-1 basis and is not traded outside of Bermuda. Therefore, the US dollar is the 'real' currency, the same goes for the Caymans.

Bermuda is a parliamentary British overseas territory with an internal self-government, whereas, the Cayman Islands territory is a British crown colony...exactly what would an 'independent' Jersey be?

Plus, where would you prefer to have your cash? In a globally-trusted 'money shop' or in a newly-opened 'playing field'?

And, don't forget, there's also the location, weather, etc., to be considered...the cash wouldn't just move out, it would fly out!

With regard to currency-exchange rates, the British government is purposely allowing the GBP to fall to a 1-to-1 level with the Euro.

A weak pound entices foreign buyers to buy British products and encourages the British to spend at home rather than abroad.

Dave

no 63.

We may not have to worry about invasion, but how would we protect our waters from foreign fishing boats?

Alan

One of the examples that the EX-Bailiff quotes to support independence is the cancellation of our Reciprocal Health Care Agreement with the UK.

We all are aware that Jersey's Government have defrauded the UK out of £millions over the past 10 plus years by accepting over £3M in annual payments and spending only around £300K in return. This blatant act was recognised and condoned by our Civil Servants and Government alike. We did not inform the UK of this anomaly as it was in our favour!

How can Sir Philip use this as an example to support his case when it was Jersey who was knowingly defrauding the UK? When Sir Philip makes such statements, he is NOT speaking for me. Should he wish to be independent from the UK may I suggest that HE leaves this Island and moves abroad?

Darren

Independence won't make a huge difference to us whilst we remain an important cog in the wheel of finance. I know many people feel this will not last though. If we are independent, with no finance or tourism, an ageing population and fewer residents to subsidise the pensions, a refusal to join the EU because we will lose our quallies system, but a diminishing economy meaning locals will struggle to buy anyway..............I could go on. I'm afraid Jersey's future is extremely uncertain

R B Bougourd

#67 "Do I qualify for any right to live in my country of birth, to rent or buy a property in my country of birth or am I still an outcast from my country of birth?"

I suspect that you probably do, Ozzie, because you would have qualified by birth at a time before the more draconian "loseable" qualifications came into force.

C Le Verdic

"... the British government is purposely allowing the GBP to fall to a 1-to-1 level with the Euro."

Especially if they, as individuals, were buying euros at almost two to the Pound and stashing them away in anticipation!

BS Deluxe

69

Surely not by employing the Royal Navy (or army as Deputy Dog was enquiring)? :-)

BS Deluxe

68 Born Warrior

fair enough.....good explanation :-)

Born Warrior

C Le Verdic 73.

Right C! Those who made/allowed this levelling-off to happen (or even saw it coming) are rubbing their hands at their 30% profit.

However, this move may help to keep a lot of Britains in work over the next couple of years, when the long-term effects of the 2008 recession begin to hit home with a vengeance.

Matt (The Oracle)

Im not sure whether to be angry or sad about some of the comments above. The average person does not appear to realise what the potentially huge disadvantages independence could have. At present, our constitutional relationship with the UK, and the Treaty of Accession (relationship with the EU) is a vital factor for trade in and out of the Island. Independence would almost ceertainly finish our trading relationship with the EU so that we would have to pay tax on imports and exports to and from EU member states (including the UK). This is just one example.

Sir P Bailhache is not stating that he necessarily supports the use of tasers - he puts this matter forward as yet another example that the relationship with the UK is becoming less secure

james e

Hang on a moment the way i see it Britain looks after the british on the island (look at a passport and spot the difference) and jersey looks after the true Jersey person. Because my parents are From the main land i can work anywhere in europe and UK. If my parents had been from Jersey i wouldn't be allowed to do that. So to be fair True Jersey persons have been independant for years. We will be ruled by Europe as will the whole of the UK, the deal was done a long time ago and there is nothing Britain or Jersey can do about it, its only gone quiet due to the financial problems in the UK, soon as thats over it will be on the books again, trust me i can bet money on it happening within the next 5 years. Euro or pound! what will be stronger! hmmm so Finance rules over here and who controls it,

If Jersey wanted to go independant the states members need to buck there ideas up, big time and from the top, In the words of forrest gump, Stupid is as stupid does and oh how much did we lose on the incinerator pricing. Independence not yet i dont think.

Matt (The Oracle)

#78 James e

You say: "We will be ruled by Europe as will the whole of the UK"

If we lose our connection with the UK we will have no relationship with the EU

Please explain?

Keyser Söze

The very mention of declaring independence brings to mind that great 1940's black and white Ealing comedy classic 'Passport to Pimlico'.

The difference is that one was a funny film script. The other, while equally absurd, is not funny.

Alice TW

Why don't we just become politically and economically what we are physically, i.e. small islands off the French coast. At least the food might improve.

BobF

It's hard to take someone seriously when the dress like a popinjay from the Court of Louis XIV. C'mon Bailiff, get a life. How 'bout a few pointers as to how exactly you'd propose severing the umbilical cord with the Realm and not ending up down the toilet?

Andy

Why do we want to be associated with a war mongering socialist state that would like to see cameras in its citizens houses.

de Rullecourt

Alice #81

Perhaps the wrong side won the Battle of Jersey.

Bridget-M.

Free Jersey from the UK, only if I can keep my UK pension.

Sanity

We don't need the UK as an independant Jersey can negotiate entry to the EU giving Jersey people the same rights as those presently enjoyed by the rest of the population.

Nicky

Good riddance. Jersey will increasingly become a place for a few rich millonaires who can afford to live there and then there will be the majority who can barely afford to get by day by day.

You lot moan about having to pay higher fees to go to university, well as you don't pay UK tax why should our taxes subsidise you?! Its common sense. For a while in the late 90s/ early noughties, Jersey students constantly boasted about not having to pay fees because they were subsidised by the states, well the boots on the other foot now.

Alice TW

I'm not sure which country Andy has in mind at comment 82 (France or the UK). But the question is could an independent Jersey continue as an offshore financial centre? Without the UK ties (and perhaps even with them) we could end up like Iceland, having to compensate depositors with huge amounts of money we don't have in the event that a bank went bust.

Mark

A whole heap of nonsense. This not for Ministers to decide, but the people of Jersey, debate followed by plebiscite. I suspect that work and the economy will come first and there will be no time for a UDI vote.

Matt (11) is correct 'we already are 95% independent.'

Tom Jones

Sanity (or is it complete lack of)

The costs of catching up on all the existing EU directives we'd need to adopt would sink us. Also Jersey people need reminding that the annual net contribution to the EU for each UK household via direct taxation is around £4,000. Jersey which has a higher per capita net income than the UK would be expected to pay more to the stability fund. Also I'd be very surprised if the EU would allow us to sign up unless we drastically changed our taxation structures. That would include a minimum of 15% VAT.

mad foetus

Alice,

You are completely wrong. inceland is in trouble 9unjustly, but that's another issue) because it had 3 banks that set up subsidiaries around the world that went bankrupt.

Jersey has no banks. All the banks in Jersey are subsidiaries or branches of foreign banks.

As far as the EU is concerned, we could only join up if we agreed to the free movement of people: in other words, allowing every EU citizen to buy property and live here. I suspect the likelihood of that happening is slim.

JPSpecial

First tasers and then nukes!

When will it end!

Although imagine Jersey trying to build a Nuke, do you think we would get invaded?

Tom Jones

Mad Foetus

You are incorrect in that the EU would insist on us changing our housing laws, at least in all aspects. Denmark, a member of the EU, has housing restrictions which prevent other EU nationals from buying Danish property until a qualification period has been achieved. They would however insist on an abolition of the 5 year qualifying period for work licenses etc as free movement of peoples and open labour markets are a central tenant of the EU.

james e

Response to Matt,

We dont need the UK to be part of the EU, The EU directive states any landmass that is classified as a area in the continent of Europe or within a certain milage off the coast of europe, IE Malta.

Everyone saying We could not join the EU dont realise the EU would love us to join due to our banking and financial dealings (they would set the rules). Why do you think its the UK trying to block us with them telling Europe we are part of the UK not europe, has anyone not noticed it was the EU that said our tax system was wrong, we then put in place GST and 20% means 20% it was to fall in line with europes rules and not the UKs, GST is going to rise within the next three months and income tax will within he next few years as will social. I dont know whats best going independent joining England or the EU, either way something needs to change with the way the rich and the poor divide. And anyone in European people can work here anyway so to say people would flood in is silly. There are a lot of Portugese, polish, French, Italian working here already and its been open for a while.

There is a EU law on the amount of people let in to live, this is due to the size of the landmass they wish to live on. That is part of the Human rights issue on the ammount of people using services such as schooling, police, hospitals and many more.

Alice TW

Mad foetus (91): OK, so a UK bank goes bust, and UK-resident depositors each get their £50k compensation. Would people holding deposits in the Jersey branch of that bank also get £50k? Not from the UK government surely? So the Jersey authorities (ie Jersey taxpayers) would have to cough up. OR, Jersey could decide not to offer any guarantee in the first place, but that would make Jersey a less attractive and riskier place to deposit money.

canuckbean

#64- Vancouver island is slightly more expensive than the mainland but still a hell of a lot cheaper than jersey!

As for tasers - google the RCMP (mounties)in Vancouver and look at their track record for causing death by tasering people- all I can say is good luck to Joe public if the idiots at the top get their own way.

SE

BS Deluxe - Suggest you read the Foot Report before comparing Jersey to Bermuda, BVI, TCI or Cayman - as should Sir Phillip B........ As for anyone else who things "independence" is a good idea - you should research and understand the offshore world and its interdependence with the UK before making such emotive statements. Worth keeping in mind that the likes of Darling, Brown and Cable are not going to be around forever - thankfully.

Quentin Smythe

I'm a well edgecated "bean" I work in a bank and hold down a pretty important job. We don't need the UK as we would set our own rates and and survive on our own. Like the rest of us most of us have converted our garages and lofts to let the Poles and other outsiders live here so on rental income alone we would all survive. Most of us are pretty smart at reinventing ourselves. The qualification law could be increased to 30 years yes thirty!!! We could start an airline like the old Jersey European and Jersey would go back to the "old ways" and yes!

John Smith

And this is the former Bailiff who tried to take Jersey contract law back into the dark ages? I think he is missing the UK Health service - he obvioulsy needs his head examined.

Born Warrior

Tom Jones and James e

Excellent comments!

Jambo

Most of the world hasn't heard of Jersey. Unfortunately, we may think we are important but the fact is Jersey is small fry and is totally insignificant and at any point, the usa, europe or uk could turn the switch off.

If Obama were to make a law where us banks cannot deal with offshore tax centres, then we will have no usd in or out of Jersey, ditto with regards to eur and gbp.

We have no choice but to stick by the UK and abide by the worlds new regulation.

Regardless, this is a much better option than letting the current politicians look after Jersey's economic future!! Given their current record!!!

Waif

Let us look at this issue realistically. Independence, historically have very rarely been won without considerable social upheaval, which thankfully has not descended upon our island. I fear that independence is a misguided idea. Naturally in a minor social crisis such as our current recession there will be certain groups and individuals the government seeks to lay blame. Obviously as a tax haven Jersey fits into such a category. I expect relations between Jersey and Britain may have been mildly tainted by this. However, I am sure with a recovering economy and a few diplomatic changes to the tax haven laws relations will resume as normal.

Pip Clement

'Worth keeping in mind that the likes of Darling, Brown and Cable are not going to be around forever – thankfully.'

Had a look at the speeches being made by Cameron and his colleagues?

If you are expecting them to ride up on white chargers to save Jersey capitalism you are very much mistaken.

The Conservatives will almost certainly be in power in the summer and I think there is a rough ride ahead as they seek to balance the books.