RBSI jobs to go in Jersey

ROYAL Bank of Scotland International staff in Jersey were told this morning that 68 jobs had to go across its offshore operations.

00636460_cropped.jpgROYAL Bank of Scotland International staff in Jersey were told this morning that 68 jobs had to go across its offshore operations.

Bosses at the bank delivered a simultaneous announcement across all departments in Jersey at around 9 am as part of a major restructuring programme. All lower-level employees were told that letters had been posted to their home addresses today inviting them to take voluntary redundancies and it is understood that senior employees were being spoken to individually.

It is understood that staff were told that the losses were expected to be most felt in Jersey, as it was the largest in its offshore network and that RBSI – which includes NatWest and Coutts – had until 20 March before compulsory redundancies would be enforced.

The bank has suffered unprecedented losses in recent months despite a £20bn bail-out by the UK government. An official statement from the bank was expected some time today, which would spell out the staff cuts in Jersey, Guernsey, the Isle of Man and Gibraltar.

Pictured: The headquarters of RBSI in Bath Street

Comments for: "RBSI jobs to go in Jersey"

Annie du feu

Lets build a world class finance centre for our well regulated island on the water front to help cope with the huge increase in jobs in the finance sector.

Or we could start making money from renewable energy sources.

the future

Can we now take the financial quarter buildings off the agenda ?

Richard

I seem to remember Geoff Cook of Jersey Finance and our politicians commenting that the resession would not affect Jersey....how wrong they were. This is just the start and it will no doubt get worse before it gets better. Lets hope the States come to their sences and start cutting back on costs now to take account of much lower tax receipts in coming years.

Bernard

I hear Fred Goodwin is looking for some new servants...

Trixy

And it's just a waiting game for everybody else.

Jimmy

I hope that no locals are forced to go, if numbers need reducing start with the huge number of UK workers brought in on 3 year contracts to carry out tasks that locals allegedly can't do

( or be trained to do )

Dave

Even before this announcement job prospects in the Finance Industry were dire. The States need to act immediately and implement the following in respect of the Finance Industry:

1/Do not allow any new J cat’s and do not renew/extend any fixed term 3 or 5 year licences when they expire.

2/Properly implement the “5 year rule”

These steps should be taken without exceptions!

Jambo

The first of many me thinks...

Marcus

I'll bet it'll be the Jerseyman who loses his job while the J cats stay!

Boris

if anyone saw coverage of Brown's address to the joint houses of Senate and Congress today and his diatribe against 'offshore tax havens' then you might think that these will not be the last job losses we encounter.

WouldyouAdamandeveit

And the States still want to spend £330 million on a new centre. I wonder who is going to use it?

sean

when are the lastest unemployment figures gonna be released?seems such a while ago!!no jobs and many youngsters 16-25 unemployed at the mo. trouble with jersey apart from finance, tourism, and farming there is bog all other industry.i know so ,so many unemployed people now that if it was me,would of upsticks and left the island.but as pointed out..it,s global!!! will get us all, way things are going.it,s all pretty frightning what is happening around the world,no money.no work,increase unstabilty,increase in social breakdown....could go on and on!!

Not Life Enriching

Losing your job isn't fun for anyone, unless you used to run RBSI then you're laughing all the way to the bank! But the real problem will come if the WHOLE house of cards comes crashing down around our collective ears. There is no point saying it wont happen because we are in unprecedented and unpredictable times and events.

Creating at least 1, possibly 2 alternative economies has gone from being a nice to have to being a matter of life and death for Jersey and possibly the rest of the Channel Islands.

Change can be a good thing even if its forced on you.

Marc

In the end of the day the jobs are now gone and we have a government on this island who stated months ago that this wouldnt affect Jersey ,Woolies is all gone now RBSI and the list will keep on growing whilst our lovely folks in the government do absolutely nothing ( as expected) can someonbe please start thinking about redundancy packages in Jersey ASAP !!!!!!!

Keith

Jimmy 6 and Marcus 9 - I fear you are right, whilst some J cats are necessary ( health staff, teachers ) I've never understood why those in the finance industry are not on strick 3 year contracts with a brief to train a local replacement during that time.

Boris 10 - couldn't agree more it was frightening and if followed through could spell the death of finance in Jersey. Are we immune from this lunatic or can he really close us down?

Certainly this is the beginning and more to follow. Dave 7 - good points that will be comprehensively ignored by our sleeping government.

Si

will the states pay redundancy!

Ouch

Yes Richard, I agree. The politicians always wear their rose-tinted glasses. When the crunch comes they wonder what hit them and the man in the street suffers. I often wonder how politicians, with all their highly paid (by taxpayers) expertese surrounding them, cannot make decent business decisions. One just has to look at the mess the people in America have found themselves in thanks to their politicians!

I Love Jersey

I think you'll find there's a link between how successful the Jersey financial industry has been and the number of UK workers 'brought in'. If losses are made it should be for the benefit of Jersey's largest economic sector.

Monty

I was amazed they made so many losses when you look at their bank charges. These people should be able to get another job in finance. There are still hundreds out there.

RIC

We pay tax evryone here gets taxed there for we are not a tax haven,its lower than the uk or must places in world but that is all .

So don't put Jersey down thats not what we need right now we have to look after number one

JP

The bank will pay redundancy you will not be wasting your tax money this time round

Nellie Macon

Not all States members are in favour of the offices on the waterfront, some are very opposed to this and are fighting for diversification. However since electors continue to vote in the hardcore politicians who will not change their thinking, these forward thinking States members are heavily outnumbered. Please bear this in mind in 3 years time.

Bean up all night

The whole house of cards is going to come down. It cannot survive. Brown's speech to congress was enough of a warning sign that finance in Jersey is finished.

The big problem can be seen by looking at Jersey's principal industries: (2007 government figures)

Financial services (53% of GVA)

Public administration (7% of GVA)

Wholesale and retail (6% of GVA)

Construction (5% of GVA)

Tourism (3% of GVA)

Agriculture (1% 0f GVA)

Other business activities (7% of GVA)

Successive governments have fed the cash cow of the industry for too long without investing significantly in any other industry. Look at the numbers, remove finance and ask yourself where the money is going to come from.

Be afraid.

Mark’s perspective

Annie du Feu @1.

Let us hope for everybody that a well regulated and managed finance industry has a future. However history teaches us that all industries come, flourish and fade away. Where is Jersey’s cider and world class stockings industry now?

The idea of a renewable energy industry built on our abundant and untapped tidal power is an obvious first step.

Dave @7.

Two very good points from you. Ease the employment and housing situation in one simple step. Are our politicians listening??

Hmm

The glory days looks like they're about to come to a grinding halt, and the blame-dodging class envy-promoting socialists in the UK Government know exactly who to blame.

Pip Clement

It is fairly obvious that governments are going to try and maximise their own tax revenues over the next few years.

Virtually every country is facing deficits and looking after your own tax payers and electors comes first, after all they are the people who vote them in and pay their wages.

If anything Cameron and his Conservatives are even more hard line on chasing tax moneys that may be slipping away overseas than Brown and the Labour party and they are odds on favourites to form the next government.

Jersey has been useful to the City of London and the UK government will bear that in mind.

A big crackdown is unlikely but a tightening of regulations and a requirement for more disclosure is likely.

Jersey might become a quieter and cheaper place to live and politicians faced with reduced tax receipts will have to get used to concentrating on spending on the 'must haves' as opposed to the 'nice to haves' eg huge prestige projects.

gemma

Time for the J Cats to leave......support the locals, those who have paid tax into the system for years and for those who call Jersey their home.

SKIPPY

Gordon Brown's comments yesterday were doom-laden. The US wants to bring down all "tax havens" and Gordon is clearly going to fully support that. What has Gordon got to lose by sacrificing Jersey and the Isle of Man? He won't lose votes. He won't lose income. Can anyone suggest why it would be in Gordon's best interest to support the offshore islands? The islands are political chess pieces and can be sacrificed for the greater global good (or so it will be described).

Adrian

Senator Le Sueur said Jersey would weather this financial storm only a few months ago. So we have nothing to worry about do we?

I didn't have his confidence then, or now, and we are now seeing the implosion of financial products around the world.

We are tole we only have the top 500 banks in Jersey, where is RBS in this list? The top 500 banks are no good if it they go bust are they? Then where will we be? Not one penny is covered in bank deposits over here. One bust bank and a lot of people will loose their savings. The UK at least has the decency to cover the first £35,000 of its electorates' money in bank accounts. Over here its zero, nil, zilch.

As far as I am concerned Jersey has become addicted to finance as the easy, wonder, cure all solution, and it will soon be shown to be a mirage. When this happens the new finance quarter will be ready just in time for vagrants to live in.

RBSI will be the first of many. Radio 4 this morning pointed out that the man in charge of the bank is stepping down at 50 with @£700K p.a. pension and even got a knighthood for services to banking! I am sure this will go down well with those who loose their jobs in the coming months over here and elsewhere.

I wouldn't want to be in banking at the moment as it is going to be a very rocky ride with many falling by the wayside, through no fault of their own. Is Jersey prepared? I don't think so!

NannieP

Browns speech to Congress was indeed a firm warning to offshore financial centres,the writing is most deffinately on the wall and the RBSI job losses is only the beginning.

yosser hughes

This one will be worse than the early 90s recession was for Jersey. Still, the dodgy world wide credit bubble and all that goes with it has been very good to Jersey this last decade.

Michael

Should we all run to the nearestcliff and kill ourselves and whilst we fall scream how our government is at fault?

The recession we are in is not local to Jersey it is global. It is unavoidable by any government and was largely caused by the greed of the banks themselves, not Ozouf and Le Sueur. Although not their greatest fans please remember that you cannot blame everything that goes wrong on them (just most things!)

As for redundency money - this is the responsibility of the bank to pay. They are offering VR so they will pay redundency to those that are let go (this is what the R stands for). Again - this is not the responsibility of the States to do so.

Bean up all night

It is true that we cannot blame Ozouf and Le Sueur for the worldwide recession (soon to be depression).

However, it is the policy of rabidly investing in the finance industry, (a policy espoused by the above mentioned, at the expense of investing in alternative industries which is going to come home to roost here. That can be laid at their, and their predecessor's doors. O & Le S continue, to this day, to deny the real problem that exists. They can be blamed for that too.

Jersey in a few years time is likely to resemble post WWII Jersey - hopefully without the barbed wired lying around. It will be quiet and peaceful with lots and lots of empty houses and office blocks. Not necessarily a bad thing in my book but I do wonder where the Island will make its money. There will be no tourists and no agriculture because of years of under investment.

Serious time to start looking at what we are going to fall back on.

I for one would like to get an answer, preferably a straight one, to a hypothetical question.

If the finance industry collapsed in Jersey within the next two years, what are O & Le S's thoughts on Jersey's future?

the frenchie

AS a result of Gordon Browns comments, I would suggest that the plumbers, painters, retail staff and thousands of jersey civil servants start planning your emigration as if the finance industry goes then the island will sink.

Its no use people saying tourism and agriculture will flourish as that is like flogging a dead horse that went years ago !

Bean

Going, going , gone,

Going to agriculture(most of thats gone now)

Going to industry (most of thats gone now)

Going to tourism (most of thats gone now)

Lets put everything into finance! Oh dear.

Al

Sensible article worth reading in the FT today responding to the posturing of Brown et al

and pointing out that it is the lax and now shown to be deficient regulation in the UK/US/Europe that allowed this crises and now needs to addressing.

martin

I blame Johny Foreigner

Will B

Jersey will survive even without Finance. How do you think other islands around the world survive?

Adrian

One elderly person said to me they prefered the Germans here as they knew where stood with them. How times change.

Bean- quite correct every industry has its day.

I believe if things collapse over here that you would see a lot of people disappearing to their next business opportunity. Also the rich can easily relocate due to their bank balance. Will those running the place stay and face the music, if things collapse, or will they go and leave the rest to sort things out as best they can?

Yes we are living in very interesting times! My advice is look after yourself, as you cannot really on anything, or anyone else to see you right, and have an alternative plan in place, as you never know you might be needing it soon.

Pete

Gordon Brown conveniently forgets that European politicians have regarded the United Kingdom itself as "a tax haven off the coast of France" for the past decade.

How exactly does he explain the Non-Dom arrangements?

yosser hughes

It is worrying when you get comments from the likes of Geoff Cook from Jersey Finance about how we need to continue to plan to build the Esplanade mini-Canary Wharf and that the current problems are merely a passing phase. He seems to have no conception that the past decade has seen a world-wide credit bubble predicated on excessively low interest rates, securitisation structures which encouraged woeful lending standards and a collective self-deception from financial practitioners and the rest of us that "things are different this time". This massive above-trend growth, which Jersey has benefited from disproportionately, will be dramatically rolled back/reversed. This will happen even if the major industrial economies take no action against offshore finance centres. It was great while it lasted but it was never going to last.

Mike R

Adrian

"One elderly person said to me they preferred the Germans here as they knew where stood with them. How times change."

Do you support that statement? - because that person sounds inexcusably stupid and bigoted, whatever their age. I presume that none of the 42 islanders who died in the concentration camps following deportation was a relative of theirs?

My grandparents were here in the occupation and I'm pretty sure they wouldn't feel that way.

hockeye

Way too much unnecessary doom and gloom here. IF the JEP actually did some journalism rather than filling around the adverts with news items you'd know that no doubt RBSI made 100's of millions, and will continue to make 100's millions. They are re-shaping - to fit with reduced business - not closing down, there is significant upside here in Jersey, for them and many others.

If they thought it was game over they'd be out as quick as you could blink as part of their review which is widely published, but quite clearly they don't. Remember they are making staff redundant hardly a time to blow the trumpet. And even if they did you might twig that the change to corporation tax which means tax receipts don't come from profits but from staff wages. So although the industry is here to stay any recession is going to bring pain to the workers and unfortunately while the business makes money the island will lose out on tax, not their fault – speak to TLS.

the frenchie

Will B (no38) - other islands survive generally as they are in sunnier climes so can rely on tourism. If you think people will come here for their 2 week vacation then you are sadly mistaken. The reason the airport/ airlines do so well in Jersey is simply because families, friends etc come to visit people who are working in Jersey.

Other islands off the coast of Scotland etc are crofting islands and cope on their meagre farming budget. Jersey farmers sold out a long time ago so that option is a no-go.

Adrian

Mike R. 42. Maybe you could ask your grandparents whether the island was run better under the Germans purely from an administrative point of view, or do they think it run better now?

This was the point the elderly gentleman was making. He said this because he is so dispondent with the way things are going now.

Anyway this was what he said whether you or I like it or not.

I myself would have to say that it would have been better from an island point of view if the Germans had never been allowed in but as we all know the Channel Islands were left clear for the Germans to walk in.

What is even more incredible is that this whole chain of events was made possible by a suicide in 1889 and one wrong turn in Sarajevo on the 28th June 1914 by a car driver, and lots of diplomatic failures all down the line from there.

I myself don't believe in war but as we know there are always people who will get in positions of power and want to take things by force. Because of the need to have a deterent the manufacture of munitions and the military apparatus employs many millions of people worldwide. This has become a very profitable business. I believe all this is wrong but thats the way things are.

As per RBS how can local staff be put down when they have done nothing wrong, yet it appears that someone in charge has walked away at 50 with a £700K a year pension paid for by the tax payer? This cannot be right can it?

I also think at some stage finance centres will be brought in line. Being reliant on finance is even more speculative than ever before.

rodjames

jersey has been the author of its own misfortune in every sense. The boom years of the 1980's when tourism peaked in the island the states parliament did'nt want that! so they culled it, only trouble was they went beyond a cull and created a bloodbath by encouraging hoteliers to sell their lucrative land plots for housing, then went the entertainment venues followed swiftly by the car hire companies which left tour operators in a very difficult position trying to market a destination which in reality was dead in the water! tourists now go elsewhere, guaranteed sun, good value and better attitude, meanwhile the island is slowly but surely losing its grip as a financial centre and needs to urgently re invent itself or it will face meltdown.

Mark’s perspective

Mike R (42), Adrian (45) & Bean up all night (23). Bean your endeavour is to be commended; you paint the stark truth that few in government want to address. All our golden eggs in one basket, a basket which is starting to look a little dated. Where is the next golden goose going to come from?

I think talk of Germans, the occupation and war is a distraction. Mike is correct to uphold our right to determine our own leaders, if we do not really like our chief minister we can vote him/her out of office on that I am with Mike and Adrian. That said the Germans do have the knack of making things work, even their two lane autobahns seen to be able to cope with traffic flows that would clog a three lane British motorway; and I am Jerseyman of good Norman stock who, in German, after two years of endeavour started to understand his German employees; and no they are not all goose-stepping fascists, far from it. Oh by the way, we still use the German yellow stop lines on our roads, unlike the Germans themselves.

Michael

Now this is quitye possibly the best example of Jersey.

An article on RBS cutting jobs has somehow managed to be turned into a conversation on the war and outsiders living here. Amazing short sightedness and self indulgence on so many's part.

But if others can change the subject....

Martin (37) if you blame johnny foreigner - and being from the UK I count as one - I guess you are not worried that the health care when you are in the UK is gone now. Becausae being that UK residents have no rights when they move to Jersey (and the proposed increase to 10 years to get a job is one of those things) then you should have absolutely no rights when you go to the UK either. No purchasing of property, no medical aid, no protection from the UK military on time of war... the list could be endless. You can't always have your cake and eat it I'm afraid.

Adrian

Sorry to digress once more. The German Occupation have had a big effect on Jersey, more than most know. Local politicians are at pains to point out that they can't alter the tax levels because it has always been that, and changing things is bad for business.

Well I have been reliably informed that income tax used to be a lot less than that. Guess what? The Germans put it up to 20% whilst they were here. So there you go, all you tax payers, the Germans set your taxes for you. Maybe a local politician could check it out and confirm this?

*I think it used to be 5p in the pound (remember there was 240p to the pound pre-decilmisation.) Shock horror!

Yes you can learn a lot from history.

Bean 23 as regards the finance contribution to GDP I am very surprised it is only 53% I would have guestimated around two thirds to 70%. Regardless of this you are bang on the money a one legged economy is asking for trouble. I also ask why Mr.Ozouf and co. have found it necessary to be doing business further afield with the likes of China?

When this depression gets a proper grip I expect to see a lot more jobs going, this is why I found it amazing at election time that certain individuals were spouting off about how Jersey was immune from outside influences, and how good a position it was in.

My piece of advice for what it worth, maybe it might be a good idea to diversify before it is too late?

Also as we are talking about banks might it not be a good idea to have bank deposit protection over here, before a bank goes under? We don't want to end up like Guernsey where people have been getting very upset, so much so that their First Minister has been getting problems because of it. http://www.thisisjersey.com/2009/03/06/threats-made-to-chief-minister-of-guernsey/

Adrian

Sorry to digress again.

Michael 48 no offence meant by my comments. Yes Jersey should pay its way as regards medical needs. However this has been poorly handled and I am not blaming any side in particular as I don't know how we arrived at this state of affairs. However it is causing distress to some UK nationals over here who are concerned that they might not get treatment in the UK, should they fall ill on holiday, because they have been in Jersey for 40-50 years. I only want to know what the state of play is should I ever visit the UK on holiday, as I still don't know where I stand being a none UK national.

As per UK residents they do have rights over here, and some don't even have to do a qualifying period before they can buy, ref J-cats and 1.1k's, unlike island born and the rest of the UK nationals who have to do 12 years residency before they can buy. Yes housing is a major issue as there isn't enough.

I myself wouldn't want to live in the UK so I wouldn't mind if this was implemented, and we couldn't live there. This would also affect UK nationals wanting to come to work in Jersey.

As regards military protection, refer to the Second World War as a valid reason for not needing it. Britain was a world power then, not anymore, do you really think they could protect the Channel Islands from invasion anymore than they could then?

I am sure the UK would be happy to take money for treating islanders in their hospitals, as Jersey will for treating UK national here, this is what is to be expected in any decent country. Also islanders pay for UK higher education when they go to the mainland. Jersey even pays towards the UK defence budget by having the local TA which help defend the UK's vital interests overseas. Locals even go in the regular army, navy and airforce to do the same, so the Channel Islands do give something back to the the UK even though they are not part of it.

This has happened down through the ages. One of my great grandfathers fought in the trenches for the French in the First World War, though he wasn't French, but was Jersey born and so he didn't need to be there. I would think trench warfare for four years was pretty horrible, and getting nibbled by rats when you fell asleep in the trench was probably one of the least worrying things about being there.

Another fought in what was Mesopatamia for the British Army against the Turks even though he was Jersey born and didn't need to be there. So as you can see we do help you out when you are requiring assistance, as well as with the French.

Warren J

Clearly Jersey is very reliant on Fiance, but I fail to see how a small island with a population of 100,000 (?) can survive without a major 'intellectual' type of industry.

Manufacturing is a non starter, and agriculture is extreemly limited.

Tourism declined because of external factors and the alternative choices that people now have for their holidays. The low operating costs of modern jet aircraft mean that people can travel much further for less, in real terms than in the 60's There is absoultely nothing that Jersey could have done to maintain tourism at thouse levels of the 50's & 60's

Yes, Jersey has all of its eggs in one basket - It is not ideal, but we have to support our governments wish that Finance be supported.

Bean up all night

Warren J (51). You make a few points which I disagree with in varying degrees.

Most strongly I disagree with you that we have to support our government's wish that finance be supported. Unless it is made law that we have to support any particular government position (see North Korea for an example), we are free to refuse to support it.

I disagree with you that the island cannot survive without an 'intellectual' industry (whatever that is). I assume you mean finance. Many jurisdctions survive without the finance industry because they diversify.

I disagree with you that manufacturing is a non-starter but, as you do not give a reason for your view, I cannot properly argue against an unsupported assertion. That said, I see no reason why manufacture should be a non-starter. We used to have a thriving ship building industry here for example.

Agriculture is limited? Limited to what? The only limits are in peoples imaginations and on how much more green land gets re-zoned. More is less as they say.

Tourism declined as a direct result of government policy and underfunding. Landing fees priced us out. Failure to invest in the industry left us 2nd class. We became too expensive and failed to compete. Why? Because our government was spending too much money and attention pandering to the finance industry to hear what the man and women on the street was saying. Most of the problems with tourism were caused by successive greedy governments and were not 'external'.

Other than that I agree with you.

Nellie Macon

The small Jersey farmers did not "sell out" Frenchie - they were killed off by the "big boys" and the the Department of Agriculture did nothing to help them.

Even now, the surviving small farmers have to continually fight to keep going and are crippled by export costs which our government imposes even though they know agriculture is struggling to survive.

Graham

Oh we will be okay. There are still loads of jobs in finance and as long as you are skilled you will have no problems. I am proud of this Island and the Council of Ministers who run it.

Bob

Last time I checked, Jersey was it's own separate legal jurisdiction that made it's own laws? Why then are we worried about what Brown, Obama and the rest of the world can force us to do? Forgive me for being simplistic, but let's stop worrying about what they can do to us, stand up for ourselves and say we'll make our own tax laws, people from around the world can keep their money here and if anyone doesn't like it - tough.

Robbie

Having read the comments on both this topic and that of the end to free healthcare in the UK, I find it amazing that some of the citizens of Jersey have made such attacking comments about the UK including comparisons being made with the then fascist state of the German Reich.

I had a Father who served for more than six years in the British Army during the war and suffered extreme ill health for the rest of his life because of it and to my mind there is no place in a discussion about the current economic climate (and all that may involve), for comparisons with a state that murdered six million Jews ( a state that has nothing to do with the current German state I would emphasise).

Let's keep to the subject in hand and for what my opinion is worth (not a lot I would admit)I would suggest that the anger of Jersey citizens is directed towards their govt. for not in the past negotiating a longer term better deal for its people.

Let's face the facts - I lived abroad for four years as a non-UK resident and I was fully aware that I was not entitled to healthcare on my return visits unless I continued to pay a full national insurance contribution for me and my wife, which I did. This was for someone who had worked and paid a NI contributions for more than 30 years at that time and I had absolutely no problem with this - so why should you, when you haven't even paid in?

As to the doom and gloom merchants, Jersey like the rest of us will go through some bad times but I'm sure will resurface stronger and more diversified than before. Good will come out of the bad for all of us after we turn the corner from this global economic downturn. We just have to get on the best we can.

Adrian

I don't agree with the way finance is done in overshore centres as it is morally objectionable. I also don't agree with the way the government panders to big business and finance. Jersey is in a hole and it is only a matter of time before the chickens come home to roost as far as I am concerned.

I believe that tourism and agriculture have all but been destroyed because they were not "needed" as Jersey had finance. With oncoming food shortages this will just show how short sighted our government has been. This whole global wobble is due to one thing and one thing only greed. We have been conned into believing that this is the way to do things. It is not and it will lead to major ecological disasters, famine and more war.

All the government has done is pump up the Jersey economy like a big bubble and it is called finance. It has caused massive immigration, causing housing shortages, prices to rocket through the roof making us uncompetive in the labour market etc. The government is responsible for all of this and trying to buck the demographic time bomb by importing more and more people into Jersey is doomed to failure. All it will do is lead to the potential collapse of everything over here leading to the need to increase taxes more and more to try and keep it all going. It is basically unsustainable as far as I am concerned.

A one legged economy is doomed to failure in the long term as all industries have their day. Does the government have the ability to change things? I seriously doubt it as they are all nearly all of the view that finance is good for Jersey. They may be right from a monetary point of view but what about quality of life and the environment? Are these to be sacrified to the machine that is finance?

As regards industry, countries do well when they produce things, when they stop producing things they become hostage to outside events. I would ask what products does Jersey actually make? I can't think of much, the major thing appears to shuffling electronic money from point A to point B at the touch of a button. Is this a real industry? Maybe Jersey should get back to basics and become a world leader in a niche market that benefits the majority of people not just here but elsewhere?

As far as I am concerned what is happening with RBSI is but one outward sign of a sickness called greed and manipulation and it is affecting all of the banking industry all over the world. This is striking at the very core of the capitalistic system, and why there is so much panic around from governments. The majority of the losers will be those small people investing their money for a rainy day, those approaching retirement, those working in the banking industry, and those paying tax. However it appears the culprits will get off lightly.

These are my own views on things for what it is worth, and it is why I have no belief in the system as it encourages self service and greed to the detriment of nearly everything else.

Ouch

Hear, hear, Bob (refer No.55)

Ouch

Does Gemma (see no 27) realise that the J Cats also pay taxes which helps to keep her tax rate lower than if the J Cats had not worked here! I love Jersey yet I find myself categorised as a J Cat and for that reason seem to be disliked by most Jersey folk (if the comments to the JEP are anything to go by). I thought that I had left behind discrimination in the third world country I came from, yet I find it here, albeit in a different guise. We need to all pull together, not in different directions otherwise Jersey will not succeed in beating the financial storm. Make friends, not enemies!

Bean up all night

Bob (#55). You want to know what the rest of the world can do to stop us doing whatever we want?

1. Trade sanctions. Notably the two closest countries to us don't really like us having money that they think they are entitled to. How easy it would be to ban imports to Jersey. Jersey manufactures very little of its own. Imagine - no timber, no steel, no glass. Food? Could we feed our own population on what we produce locally?

Is the SS Vega still running?

2. Transport. France could say 'non' to allowing Jersey boats and planes using their harbours and airports or even their territorial waters or sky. Hey, England could do too. Where would that leave us?

3. Power. France could pull the plug. Where do we get our oil, petrol and gas supplies from?

Effectively, the rest of the world could take their ball home and stop playing with us until we play by their rules.

The saying 'no man is an island' is ironically applicable here.

yosser hughes

No. 60 , exactly. The US and co could tell companies and individuals that want to have access to their markets that it is conditional on not doing business with certain jurisdictions.

People over here may not appreciate the level of anger and disgust that has built up in other countries about a bubble and crash that has been originated and caused by certain sectors of the worldwide finance industry and which, certain aspects of, offshore finance centres helped facilitate . Trillions of $ and £ have been misallocated to inappropriate sections of the world economy because of this. Much better for Jersey to sacrifice up certain sectors of its finance industry, if that is what's required, than to try and tough it out. We do a lot of basic stuff in our finance industry very well and which is not controversial in its effects on other economies.

Adrian

In total agreement with you both Bean and Yosser the Jersey government's arrogance to everyone's opinions beggers belief in my book. To carry on a practice that contributes to the removal of $255B per annum from the tax revenues of well over 100 countries world wide can't be seen as a good thing can it?

Jersey should look to move out of tax avoidance at its earliest possible convenience before it has the carpet pulled from underneath it. I speak to people from around the world and I prefer not to mention the J word as it usually brings a reply like of yes we know about that place its a tax haven and full of millionaires isn't it? Very rarely do you get Jersey cows and new potatoes mentioned!

I just try and stear away from this topic as quick as possible as it is embarassing to me.

As regards the whole banking thing it is in a total mess. Governments are doing their best to put a brave face on things but if you have any nowse you will know that things are not right and the whole lot is on a knife edge. It appears all the dirty laundry is finally seeing the light of day. So much for capitalism, free markets and the survival of the fittest businesses. These lame ducks are expecting a bail out of tax payers money for their own silly mistakes and still expecting perks of the job. In my opinion failure should be rewarded with the sack and removal of all perks. This would concentrate peoples' minds on their responsibilities to their workers and customers and share holders. Failure shouldn't be an option.

Anita

the problem is,people like me wont take the risk any more,with your Gov not safegaurding savings.

my money is tax payed,through years of hard work.

its now in the IOM RBSI

the only thing is now for all us little people is that if a bank does go,the system will fall,and i dont really think the safegaurds are worth a light.

Gary

I am always bemused by the dislike for non locals, I wish just for one day they would all take the day off, and see how many businesses open, most of hospitality is non local, a lot of retail certainly is, farming, education airport and harbours unfortunately people just don't realise that we need imported labour both skilled and unskilled, i remember recently Jersey people kicking up a stink because of a stamp in their passport yet look at teh way non locals are being discriminated against on these postings. Jersey people (and I am one) we should be ashamed of ourselves!

and Bean up all night you have it spot on with what could happen, we need to look after everyone and realise that we are all in this together

Bean in Ireland

Ok you are all missing the main point or on the most part most of you are. Lets get back on track.

Global banking is on the decline. New rules for the industry will be made by the goverments of the world. The status quo that Jersey has enjoyed over the years is gone!

I left the island 10 years ago not because I wanted to but because I had to. I wanted to further my career and raise a family.

We could not do this in Jersey because of high house prices and the compitition for jobs. I have a family history in the island dating back to 1042. So I left with great sadmess that my home could not support me in what I wanted to do.

I would move back to the island in a shot if Jersey became more world aware. There are industries out there that Jersey can entice in to the island that have been ignored by the states.

For example a couple of years ago Google, PayPal, Skype (all part of the same company were looking for a new european headquarters. With Jerseys excellent links to telepone and broadband systems Jersey would have been a strong candidate along with multi language support and low tax rates. Did the states pursue this opertunity? I guess not.

Also IT telephone support would also be yet another good IT based industry to go for. Any support given here to activly go out and pursue companies providing this... No!

Hang on what about off shore games. Oh! there again Jersey lost out Gilbraltar, It has the largest on-line bookies and games companies over there already. Another lost opertunity.

Ok! What about fullfillment industries. You know the likes of on-line sales of small computer devices, books cd's, dvd's etc. Thats right the states just gave that one away.

Hmm options for a highly motivates and skilled population are getting a bit short now not many options left for high income low investment business left is there.

Over to the states information technology officer what other IT related industries can Jersey go for?

Oh one last thought what about IT training? Oh feck! (an Irishism along the lines of bother or suggar actually short for feckless)we have lost all those lovely hotels that we could let out to IT training companies Oh! feck again no air links to heathrow thats that one skuppered as well then.

Come on states wake up! Smell the coffee the island needs another industry that is low investment low impact that utilises the infrestructure that the island already has. With a population that is well educated and motivated. Please please please generate some policies that activly persues IT industries and also eduucation policies that generate an interest in IT.

Super_Grass

The sun has gone to bed and so must I

So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen, goodbye,

Goodbye,

Goodbye,

Goodbye!

mad foetus

what a load of nonsense has been posted here.

the finance industry is not all about small scale depositors. indeed, at the bank where I work we won't take deposits of less than several million and a £50,000 guarantee scheme would mean nothing.

the whole trend of the finance industry has been to go upmarket, focussing on the institutional and UltraHNWI market, not the bucket and spade mob that invested in Kaupthing and Landsbanki.

Jersey has strict regulation, is renowned as a jurisdiction to avoid if you are seeking to avoid tax or have something to hide, and is seen as a leading European jurisdiction in fund domiciliation and administration. Cayman is much more vulnerable, and Jersey may even pick up some of the fund work that has gone to the Caribbean in the recent past.

Finance also employs, as a proportion of its workforce, more LOCAL people and LESS J CATS than any other industry in the Island. Less than retail, tourism, agriculture or the public service. It does so with very little impact on the environment. It pays for healthcare, social security and education services that are the highest funded in Europe.

And yet some of you believe agriculture and tourism are the way forward. Only if the aim is to be like the Isle of Wight, a backwater for retirees where there are no jobs for the next generation.

REAL JERSEYMEN SUPPORT FINANCE.

Super_Grass

mad foetus - "a backwater for retirees where there are no jobs for the next generation."

This suits me down to the ground